[00:01:09] Yeah, it makes me worry about the fish toothpaste this guy is using. [00:01:42] It's still good to see people being self-reliant though. [00:01:50] lol. this is mark boyle, too: http://justfortheloveofit.org/blog-3120~my-verdict-on-zeitgeist-and-the-venus-project [00:01:52] URL Title: justfortheloveofit.org | Promoting Skillsharing | Learn Skills, share tools, save money and make great new friends (at justfortheloveofit.org) [00:02:14] Oh yeah, I read that. Didn't know it was the same guy. [00:02:15] Lol [00:02:30] Should have figured. [00:03:49] Interestingly he threw someone off his site because they talked about making money to fix things.. [00:04:26] :D [00:04:40] Is one of the people I look up to as he has been successful in obtaining land and houses. [00:04:55] He lacks workers though as he had no business to generate an income at the moment. [00:05:21] Hence my interest in creating businesses to solve that hurdle and allow communities to flurish and expand. [00:05:56] At which point we can start looking towards lowering the working week and being efficient with our resources. [00:05:56] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAc97hTyA4g [00:05:58] You4Tube 2[Title] Why Investment Banks Won't Use Public Cloud Computing Services 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:05:08 2[Views] 77 2[Rating] None 2[Uploaded] 2010-07-12 2[Description] http://ideas.excelian.com - This is a "lightening talk" on cloud in banking and finance, given by Dr Adam Vile of Excelian at CloudCamp London 2010. He discusses managed cloud services, secure cloud computing, grid as a service (GaaS), shared grid, HPC c [00:06:27] I should watch that later when I have more bandwidth to spare. [00:07:50] I'm on the poor persons internet connection at the moment.. [00:08:17] About the last bill I can cut.. [00:08:26] Last is telephone. [00:08:29] :( [00:08:46] hmm [00:09:12] Nanos1: telephone as in cell or landline? [00:09:38] landline, I'm on PAYG mobile, spend about £10 a year on that, mainly SMS's [00:09:59] Landline I can cut my costs there by around 50% by removing all extra services and free calls during the day. [00:10:38] I haven't had a landline phone for something like 5 years by now [00:10:52] After that, the only other real cost to effect is bus pass. [00:10:53] almost six, actually [00:11:23] If mobile broadband had more bandwidth allowance, (And if I lived in an area I could get it..) then I would go for that, as it would be a little cheaper. [00:11:42] ah, you're using the landline for internet traffic? [00:11:48] Yes. [00:11:51] I see [00:12:03] Obviously, if I'm homeless then mobile internet will be the only option :-) [00:12:20] Well, yes :) [00:12:25] or internet cafes [00:12:27] Not quite sure where to put the tent mind you at the moment.. [00:12:28] or leeching wifi [00:12:47] Hmmm... I watched the Michael Ruppert film "Collapse" and he stated that having a landline would be more secure than a mobile phone. [00:12:59] But, I see more logic having a cell phone alone than both. [00:13:32] when things get bad we won't need phones. [00:13:37] That's when he was giving tips on how to survive the economic collapse. [00:13:45] CB radio would probably help there. [00:13:48] my next phone will have wifi capabilities [00:14:18] so that I can use mesh networking for communication even if the cell network goes down :) [00:14:50] If the cell network goes down, whats going to power the mesh network :-) [00:15:02] At least CB tends to run of car batteries :-) [00:15:28] the cell network may go down for other reasons than power failure, though [00:15:34] pax: when things get bad we won't need phones. <--- If people work together in their own neighborhoods, I can see your point. [00:15:40] lack of maintenance etc. [00:15:56] Lack of power I think will be a mayor issue, espeically in countries like the UK that are expecting to suffer lack of capacity very shortly due to closing of old nuclear stations. [00:16:18] *major [00:16:28] Ta [00:16:38] Always have a problem with that word.. [00:16:42] :) [00:17:14] Hence why I want to generate my own power in my own home. (Or my own vehicle if I@m homeless..) [00:17:47] At the moment I reckon I have enough solar panels to power a netbook for several hours a day if need be. [00:18:05] I see your point, but to be honest, I do not think that collapse will either be that soon or that fast. [00:20:49] I doubt it will either, but I like to be prepraired just in case riots break out. [00:21:22] Hence my interest in a 20 ton 8 wheeled Russian ex nuclear missile launcher as a possible convertion to a motorhome once :-) [00:21:36] But sadly no where really to park it here without risk neighbours might complain.. [00:21:44] omgwat [00:22:09] That sounds either extremely horrible or completely awesome [00:22:21] http://www.nanos.org.uk/vehicles/motorhome/motorhome.htm [00:22:22] URL Title: Motorhome. (at www.nanos.org.uk) [00:22:40] Bottom picture shows a similar vehicle converted to a motorhome. [00:23:02] nice :) [00:23:02] I thought would be very suitable for bashing through rioters :-) [00:23:11] And roadblocks.. [00:23:20] But at 2 gallons per mile, not cheap to run.. [00:23:27] heh, not really [00:23:37] looool [00:23:40] Looked more at a 6x6 truck, that does 12mpg [00:24:15] But again, lack of someplace to park it is an issue whilst doing it up. [00:24:23] Hence why building a vehicle small enough to fit in my front garden. [00:24:37] Nice haha [00:24:58] you could either hire someplace close by or use a nearby forest, though [00:25:48] Have to go a long way to find forest to live in thats not already full of people living rough. [00:25:58] But, we might be able to use campsites. [00:26:35] To do that though, does require a vehicle with enough range to go back and forth between campsite and work. [00:28:49] couldn't you have a secondary vehicle? [00:29:05] like a bike or a scooter or something like that? [00:29:09] If we could afford it, at the moment we can barely to afford to build one. [00:29:22] right [00:29:50] Old problem of lack of money. [00:30:07] Means things like, I have no driving license, as I could never afford to get one, nor afford a car/etc. [00:30:20] Slightly amusing as my last job I drove for 2 years without one :-) [00:30:34] It was on government land, so didn't need a license! [00:31:03] I remember the day I started and they asked me if I had a license, I said no, and they gave me the keys and said there you go, your get the hang of it.. [00:31:13] Hardly what I'd call training.. [00:31:46] And people wonder why the country is going to the dogs when we don't invest in training.. [00:31:59] Tons of unemployed with limited skillsets. [00:32:09] Jobs for people with skills.. [00:32:34] Costs money to train folk though. [00:33:10] Thats one of the things I want to do in a community building effort, make sure plenty of folk get the oppertunity of training, so we don't need to rely on imported skilled labour in the future. [00:33:25] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-c9131efe.supraktv.hu) [00:33:29] Will also reduce the number of unskilled in the community. [00:33:31] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-c9131efe.supraktv.hu) [00:42:14] Nanos1: you're in russia, then? [00:42:37] or UK, you said [00:42:42] UK [00:43:07] I hear our problems are not uncommon around the world. [00:43:12] not really [01:09:57] *** Quits: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-1658387c.epm.net.co) (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~) [01:11:27] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27AGe1b0mnI [01:11:28] You4Tube 2[Title] Go Open Source or Go Home 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:04:55 2[Views] 158137 2[Rating] 4.66 2[Uploaded] 2009-10-10 2[Description] http://www.twitter.com/nixiepixel You don't have to be a geek to want to save your money and download programs for free. Here are 5 of my quick picks for open source software. My site - http://www.nixiepixel.com You may be wondering; What is Open Source? Open source generally refers [01:12:27] *** Quits: Nanos1 (nanos.org.uk@RBOSE-216d49a4.dyn.plus.net) (Quit: Leaving.) [01:12:46] Oh yeah. [01:13:27] *** Quits: neocortex (Hermes@RBOSE-199d13a3.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [01:14:51] hmm [01:15:10] seems nanos and neo took this vid title to literally [01:15:11] :x [01:15:20] LoL [01:15:38] GIMP looks cool. [01:17:03] open source is doing fine :) [01:17:24] "Open Source is the clear winner here". [01:17:28] You go girl! [01:17:32] LoL [01:17:34] :) [01:17:39] :) [01:19:06] new ubuntu is going to be the the ball rolling past the middle point of the field :) [01:21:00] hardware developers is starting to build custom hardware for linux systems. its on! [01:23:19] http://www.linaro.org/arm-freescale-ibm-samsung-st-ericsson-and-texas-instruments-form-new-company-to-speed-the-rollout-of-linux-based-devices/ [01:23:19] kalken's URL: http://tinyurl.com/22o7957 [01:23:20] URL Title: ARM, Freescale, IBM, Samsung, ST-Ericsson and Texas Instruments Form New Company to Speed the Rollout of Linux-Based Devices (at www.linaro.org) [01:23:49] currahee! [01:24:24] :D [01:25:06] *** Joins: Nanos (nanos.org.uk@RBOSE-216d49a4.dyn.plus.net) [01:26:23] Amazing what we spend money on these days.. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3109629/Councils-190k-on-mice-bridges.html [01:26:24] URL Title: Council's £190k on mice bridges | The Sun |News (at www.thesun.co.uk) [01:26:38] And just how do you fire fat workers... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3111237/Too-fat-Hooters-girls-are-sacked.html [01:26:39] URL Title: 'Too fat' Hooters girls are sacked | The Sun |News (at www.thesun.co.uk) [01:27:11] kalken: i just hope that those companies dont fukk up the licenses [01:28:18] as far as for software its probably fine, but hardware is another thing [01:28:52] these companies sells by quantity so they dont want ppl to start fixing their stuff :/ [01:29:10] think it has to come from people, to people [01:39:49] hopfully open hardware will spread fast [01:40:26] btw mozilla has a firefox 4 beta 4 rlsed: http://www.mozilla.com/de/firefox/beta/ [01:40:28] URL Title: Firefox 4 Beta (at www.mozilla.com) [01:41:15] oops [01:41:21] german link :D [01:41:34] !g firefox 4 [01:41:35] 166,000,000 results | Firefox 4 Beta @ http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/beta/ | Firefox | Ajude-nos a testar o Beta mais recente @ http://www.mozilla.com/pt-BR/firefox/all-beta.html | Newest Update to Firefox 4 Beta :: The Mozilla Blog @ http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2010/08/11/newest-update-to-firefox-4-beta/ [01:44:24] *** Joins: neocortex (neocortex@RBOSE-bd5c1d12.nxg.net.au) [01:47:20] new firefox looks good :) [01:50:31] *** Joins: Buglouse (bug@RBOSE-75aba761.res.rr.com) [01:59:02] http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/4/2010/07/87a2852446ae55d1f15656d49f913e94/original.jpg [02:03:55] Yeah... The RIAA is full of shit. [02:04:49] Interesting math. [02:12:02] *** Quits: pax (pax@RBOSE-9c4d9974.dip.t-dialin.net) (Connection closed) [02:12:46] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [02:41:30] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKHwTEBCA14 [02:41:31] You4Tube 2[Title] Official Ubuntu Netbook 'remix' Promo ad 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:01:45 2[Views] 3459 2[Rating] 4.79 2[Uploaded] 2010-08-21 2[Description] A rarely seen official advert for Ubuntu Netbook Remix (as it was known back then) commissioned by Canonical. [02:42:31] *** Quits: redgi2 (6670@A96332.4756B2.C933A6.AE7E4B) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [02:43:41] heh [02:46:53] :) [02:53:26] *** Joins: baron (qwebirc@RBOSE-02889560.cpe.netcabo.pt) [02:54:18] hello baron [02:54:26] or hola :D [02:55:19] *** Quits: baron (qwebirc@RBOSE-02889560.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Quit: Page closed) [02:55:28] You scared him. [02:55:29] LoL [02:56:12] 8( [02:56:19] * DNS tried to be friendly [02:59:14] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-901ba432.bredband.skanova.com) (Quit: Leaving) [03:00:35] :( [03:01:15] heh theres a sister side of umgubuntu: http://omgsuse.com/ [03:01:18] URL Title: OMG! SUSE! | openSUSE news, app reviews, eye candy and opinion (at omgsuse.com) [03:03:11] *site of omgubuntu [03:03:21] @_@ [03:03:26] OMG! RBOSE! [03:04:50] omgomgomg [03:34:24] * FAT64 dances [03:34:58] I didnt get no paycheck [03:35:03] * FAT64 ends up like nanos [03:55:34] *** Joins: SCI (qwebirc@RBOSE-94aeb33c.res.rr.com) [04:21:11] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-e6ebb2a4.tbcn.telia.com) (Client closed the connection) [04:33:17] hmm [04:33:26] what's umgubuntu [04:33:50] oh omgubuntu [04:42:16] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk [04:42:17] URL Title: OMG! Ubuntu! (at www.omgubuntu.co.uk) [04:56:35] yeah I found it [04:56:37] it's pretty gay [04:56:54] nah its not! [04:56:57] :P [04:57:24] helps with news [04:59:35] *** Quits: Buglouse (bug@RBOSE-75aba761.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [05:03:37] I guess, but can't you get all that information directly from Canonical? [05:05:49] hmm i think its good to have an extra site for that, but just my opinion [05:25:28] i think we're on the right track...keep up the good work [05:37:06] *** Quits: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [05:38:37] we should have RBOSE awards night [05:38:42] on mumble [05:38:52] with champagne and everything [05:38:55] cheeses [05:39:07] acceptance speeches [05:39:40] we could nominate people for stuff...like gayest contibution ... and stuff like that [05:39:57] and we could have PJ award [05:40:02] and Fresco award [05:40:16] and then get PJ to come in and do some marimba entertainment [05:40:22] it would be awesome [05:40:46] maybe even a jazz band or something [05:40:53] guest appearances [06:05:14] with champagne and everything <--- LoL [06:05:22] yeh [06:05:29] champagne is good for you [06:05:51] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLeUTpwFjI [06:05:52] You4Tube 2[Title] Chris Rock - No Sex in the Champagne Room *Unsensored* 2[Category] People 2[Duration] 0:04:21 2[Views] 226853 2[Rating] 4.90 2[Uploaded] 2007-07-25 2[Description] "Sunscreen" o cacete! Isso que eh conselho! =P heheheheheheeh No matter what the stripper tells you, there's no Sex in the Champagne Room! Sure, there's champagne in the champagne room. But you dont want champagne, you want sex! =P [06:06:09] lol [06:08:21] *** Quits: SCI (qwebirc@RBOSE-94aeb33c.res.rr.com) (Quit: Page closed) [06:10:46] And you will be the host of it all. [06:10:49] LoL [06:11:17] I would be like nominated like 10 awards alone. [06:11:21] It would be awesome. [06:14:15] totally [06:16:24] you would be nominated for most awesome music posts [06:16:34] and DNS would be nominated for worst music posts [06:16:37] Oh yeah. [06:16:40] :D [06:16:41] hehe [06:16:56] I don't know... It might be a tie between me and DNS. [06:17:03] lol [06:17:05] He might kick my ass on that. [06:17:08] haha [07:04:21] hi [07:09:28] hi grits [07:09:30] :) [07:10:06] what are you going to wear to the RBOSE awards night, Grits? [07:12:25] *** Quits: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [07:13:15] :| [07:18:20] *** Joins: hakufu (hakufu@RBOSE-7e2be303.bredband.comhem.se) [07:27:27] *** Quits: hakufu (hakufu@RBOSE-7e2be303.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving) [07:50:28] *** Joins: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) [07:51:27] bitch better recognize [08:04:19] recognize what [08:06:18] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@RBOSE-27a126af.pool.digikabel.hu) [08:24:58] *** Quits: neocortex (neocortex@RBOSE-bd5c1d12.nxg.net.au) (Client closed the connection) [08:26:48] oh [08:53:15] *** Joins: neocortex (Hermes@RBOSE-07d5e6cd.iinet.net.au) [08:54:59] recognize me [09:19:58] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (Sixth_Ape@RBOSE-bac6e26d.mweb.co.za) [09:22:14] recognises grits [09:22:25] no, the server [09:22:28] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-c9131efe.supraktv.hu) [09:22:34] lol [09:22:34] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-c9131efe.supraktv.hu) [09:22:58] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (Connection closed) [09:25:33] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-28808f64.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [09:25:47] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@RBOSE-27a126af.pool.digikabel.hu) [09:29:48] this fucking dumb shit [09:29:53] lol [09:30:12] "My thought is the more uses a raw material has the more value it should get. Which leads to another use of the Resource Value Index. The world computer may choose to grow more hemp and less corn based on hemp's higher score." [09:30:17] world computer wtf [09:30:17] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [09:30:43] lol [09:30:50] http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=3&id=280434&limit=10&limitstart=140 [09:30:50] Grits' URL: http://x0.no/1eid [09:30:55] URL Title: VP's economic model of RBE (?) - The Zeitgeist Movement (at www.thezeitgeistmovement.com) [09:31:30] what a fucking idiot [09:31:35] lol [09:31:51] and saying something like the more uses it has the more "value" t gets [09:31:59] yes [09:32:05] it is what it fucking is, it's not "worth" anything [09:32:24] So corn should be grown instead of hemp even though hemp has more uses? [09:32:34] yeah numbskull let's give a point value to water since it has oh so many distinct uses [09:32:35] From my perspective, he has a point. [09:32:55] it's an idiotic paradigm [09:32:59] lol [09:33:42] apparently this guy's idea of the future is a single computer controlling all resource production in the world [09:33:50] Well, its not applicable to everything, i agree on that. [09:34:26] but it's not very sophisticated software running on it, it's about as complex as a computer game AI [09:35:22] the guy is a fucking dumb shit, he's one of the the first ones the deathbots will kill when they rise to power [09:35:22] www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/NSACareers?v=wal [09:35:53] lol - deathbots [09:37:25] There is no need to waste energy on being aggressive. Prove him wrong ^^ [09:37:51] someone refered to me...finally [09:37:54] on facebook [09:38:01] someone actually noticed what i said [09:38:10] ...they always ignore me [09:38:13] ...until today [09:38:14] yay [09:38:24] happy happy joy joy [09:38:27] :| [09:38:38] stop looking at me like that [09:39:40] what [09:39:53] these fucking morons on the zeitgeist movement web site [09:39:58] lol [09:40:27] they're acting like it's going to be some immense challenge feeding people. [09:40:28] I'm not sure that many are actually fucking though.. :-) [09:40:49] the way they envision the future really speaks to their lack of technical sophistication [09:41:06] I imagine living with mum and dad has contributed to that. [09:41:29] And, the way of looking at resources like one looks at being able to pirate software, hardware just doesn't work the same. [09:41:40] of course it does [09:42:00] why do you think the chinese can sell a knockoff of an iPod for one tenth the prce [09:42:01] price [09:42:17] You can copy software millions of times for very little cost, hardware on the other hand costs considerable more. [09:42:30] speak for yourself [09:42:34] Sure, the Chinese can produce cheap items, but even those have a cost far above that of software. [09:42:48] to me it doesn't cost shit, at least not in terms of money [09:43:09] eg. if you shared out all the resources, the best we might manage is a very small house for everyone, not a large house. [09:43:20] you're delusional [09:43:29] But we could manage a copy of windows for everyone :-) [09:43:40] first of all [09:43:41] Just not necessaryly a computer to run it on.. [09:43:41] "we" [09:43:47] We, being the entire planet. [09:44:05] could simply make all resources equally available to people and let them build their own fucking homes [09:44:23] There is only so much resources sitting in the ground to dig up, and resources to dig it up, eg. your be limited by your production of said resources to what you can build each year. [09:44:32] Nanos, i remember talking to you a couple a months ago about a "centered" room design. Do you know what i mean? [09:44:42] Most folk might struggle to build their own homes these days. [09:44:53] yeah what's the limit of the resources we can use to build homes [09:44:53] morning [09:45:01] o/ Viper [09:45:02] centered, would that be where the majority of furniture is in the middle of the room rather than around the edge ? [09:45:04] most "folk" don't have access to lots of power tools [09:45:05] and materials [09:45:05] Morning Viper. [09:45:09] :) [09:45:14] Nanos, yes. [09:45:15] you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, as usual [09:45:34] Nanos, i was thinking perhaps you has some background material on that? [09:45:35] You need to be more specific about just what I'm talking about you think I don't know about.. [09:45:54] morning nanos [09:45:55] Only that I once had a room I did that in, and it worked rather well I thought. [09:45:58] I would have to be more specific, if it were just one instance [09:46:02] Morning neo too. [09:46:06] but everything spilling out of your mouth right now is crap [09:46:11] and by mouth I mean your fingers as you type [09:46:19] Funny, to me it looks like we agreed on everything.. [09:46:25] Its perhaps time to put you on ignore.. [09:46:34] Must be a bad hair day :-) [09:46:40] yeah you have that peculiar warping of perception that makes you think everyone agrees with you [09:46:42] lol [09:47:08] Nanos, how much living space did you have access to when you tried it? [09:47:14] I also thought such a room design would work well with round rooms, aka domes, as fitting stuff around round edges would be troublesome. [09:47:29] Normal house size, around 2,500 square feet I seem to recal. [09:47:31] !hug Nanos [09:47:32] * RBOSE hugs Nanos for neocortex and hopes that Nanos enjoys it. :) [09:47:36] *** Joins: Absalom (Absalom@RBOSE-96a728da.lavasoft.com) [09:47:38] *** Joins: DeLrge-wrk (Lotuz@RBOSE-6d6e0536.business.telia.com) [09:47:50] We had a particularly large bedroom that was long, and there seemed an awful lot of wasted space in the middle of the room I thought. [09:48:05] Nanos, yes. I can see where it came from. [09:48:16] Not the bed, but um... [09:48:51] I sorta like domes for various reasons, but they are not necessarly easy to fit things into because of the lack of straight lines. [09:49:00] Perhaps a dome outside and a hexagon inside might be a good idea. [09:49:14] Have you seen any dome shaped living spaces made from wood? Logs even. [09:49:31] They are cool [09:49:37] I think so. [09:50:08] I quite like wood myself, but its less suitable for underground use, and I worry about fire issues, and it getting eaten! [09:50:22] I wouldn't mind a concrete building with wooden panelling and a sprinkler system though. [09:50:58] I spent some time practicing timbering and making house material this summer. Making it using only hand tools is almost meditational. [09:50:58] I also think some effort should be made to make sure the materials used in items in the building are themselves not easily caught fire, nor produce toxic fumes when burnt. [09:51:21] Yes, I rather enjoy making things from wood. (I have few power tools myself.) [09:51:27] concrete NO, Wood YES :D [09:51:43] That also goes for metal too... (I'm often forced to file things for hours as no lathe/etc.) [09:51:45] Well, using only logs the latter is solved. However, the fire safety issue is a problem. [09:52:18] I've seen many wooden buildings suffer from rot, insect attack, water damage, fire. [09:52:31] Concrete on the other hand.. (Well, apart from concrete cancer issues with rebar..) [09:52:32] Viper, im beginning to think in the same ways. Wood is an incredible material and make very little environmental impact if you use it right. [09:52:49] Indeed, hence why I'm using wood in my vehicle. [09:53:02] I think wood could replace plastic for many uses. [09:53:17] If you take care good of wood it would stay for verry log. with no damage [09:53:20] Oh yes. Kitchen tools for example. [09:53:21] Bamboo being an interesting one as well. [09:53:41] Anyway you lots of stuff in home that burns [09:53:47] One person in the UK made a vehicle using bamboo. [09:53:48] Are there any bamboo strands that do well in colder climates? [09:53:58] I don't know, always wanted to know that one.. [09:53:59] I have seen a bikeboo. [09:54:19] I shall have to try and plant some :-) [09:54:20] There are some in russian [09:54:35] Its a grass isn't it ? [09:54:48] Yep [09:55:08] some of them grow 1 M a day [09:55:33] Someone suggested that wooden housing would be the most cost effective way to start a community building effort due to its low cost, and with pre-assembled designs, easy to erect on site. [09:55:42] I can imagine it so. [09:55:50] I can see the sense in that myself. [09:56:04] One has to think bootstrapping solutions I reckon. [09:56:10] Regarding wood ants, there are permaculture solutions for that. [09:56:19] Why not? ^^ [09:56:20] eg. I might think concrete is best, but it might be necessary to start with wood. [09:56:49] water damage from plumbing i notice is a mayor issue in house design. [09:57:05] Is why I want the plumbing to be surface mounted and not hidden in walls, so its easier to spot a leak. [09:57:29] Also, concrete lends itself well to have drainage canals under the plumbing for when, not if it leaks. [09:57:30] Thats a good idea. It could easily be made a design feature. [09:58:03] If you do have walls, having them like jeffery tube access points, eg. the panels are easily removable and replacable, rather than having to rip a hole in the wall to fix things. [09:58:18] I look towards future maintaince as a mayor design issue with houses. [09:58:36] eg. its more cost effective to design long term than short term I reckon. [09:58:45] A time saving perspective. [09:58:54] Maintence costs is what I see cripples a lot of home owners in old age. [09:59:22] As such homes go from new and working to old and needing a lot of fixing, rather than being fixed as time goes by. [09:59:57] Is why I'm keen on rented housing than owner, as its easier to keep them in good repair. [10:00:07] Also, rented is cheaper for everyone to get into.. [10:00:19] But, rented does mean people care less about looking after it. [10:00:34] But I think with good sturdy design, that kind of problem can be reduced. [10:00:42] Only if there is no system rewarding them for taking care of the apartments, [10:01:08] I once build a handrail based on a design I saw in a shop that was very resistant to damage from kids. (Not like the handrail here, which they almost tour off the wall..) [10:01:21] Got linkz? [10:01:35] What kind of reward system might work for people to take care of apartments ? [10:02:14] No pictures sadly, if I ever see it again though I'll take some! [10:02:51] Communal development. Just a mew-mew statement though, but i find it hard to pin point it to one specific set of values. [10:03:21] In simple terms, if I can describe it without a picture.. is that instead of brackets holding the handrail onto the wall, the entire length of the handrail is screwed to a beam, which is then screwed to the wall, so the stresses are taken up by all the fixing points, and not focused on a specific one. [10:03:48] Oh right. I like that idea. [10:03:55] I live in what might be called a shared community house, and I'm the only one that unblocks the toilet, so an oppertunity exists to test out solutions to find someone else to do it :-) [10:04:11] Haha [10:04:20] I've tested many solutions and not found one that works yet.. [10:04:44] Well, apart from paying someone else to do it :-) [10:05:04] Hence why I reckon the only way the first community will get built, is if we pay someone to do it.. [10:05:19] And that means we all need jobs to afford to. [10:05:31] Perhaps, at this time, it is the only solution. [10:05:37] Though, there maybe one or two volunteers, thats probably not enough to build an entire town with. [10:05:41] Yes, at this time. [10:05:49] In the future, I can imagine we might well have more volunteer labour. [10:06:02] Once people have a better environment to live in, we might be able to foster that kind of helpful attitude. [10:06:11] Yes. I think so aswell. [10:06:14] *** Joins: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-f6e501eb.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [10:06:28] I find it rather ironic that TZM goes on about how environment changes us, but isn't so keen to change it! [10:06:34] Its all about rewarding the right kind of behavior. [10:06:41] I see that kind of attitude more in religious communities, so I think some degree of change is possible. [10:07:03] And also stamping down on the wrong kind of behaviour, as at the moment people get away with things far too easily. [10:07:27] But, todays PC world makes it harder to deal with slackers/etc. [10:07:38] The market as such is incentive driven.. [10:07:47] I cant relate to "stamping down on", but rather showing the right way. There are non-violent solutions for everything. [10:07:55] And I'm not sure that works too well in things like, avoiding people getting fat. [10:08:28] Take for example toilet cleaning, if no one in a community does it, the solution is to start throwing people out until someone does it.. [10:08:46] Oh yes. Hopefully though, as we go deeper in economic recession, the gaming and tv industry will have to back down simply because people will be more interested in solving problems. [10:08:50] I'm always keen to find non-violent solutions, but I'm not sure they always exist, nor are particularly easy to find in a necessary time frame. [10:09:14] Exactly, time is always the determining factor., [10:09:25] eg. I notice as food becomes cheap, people eat more of it, I'm not sure how to solve that one with incentives other than making food expensive again. [10:10:04] Perhaps its about finding/taking the time to tell them about it. [10:10:11] Obesity is a mayor issue in community design as it rather controls the amount of women in the community, eg. lots of fat men = no women, and no women = no kids = falling population = ghost town. [10:10:36] I think anyone can relate to that statement. [10:10:39] I noticed in a lot of failed community building efforts, the lack of women being a mayor problem. [10:10:46] Mhm. [10:11:08] This is solved in the capitlist world by large wallets.. [10:11:16] But, to start with, we won't have large wallets.. [10:11:20] So how do you think we could solve that? [10:11:29] Getting a more mixed gender environment, that is. [10:12:06] And, I'm not sure the best solution is large wallets, as a community of 1,000 with everyone on £100k, or 10,000 and everyone on £10k.. I think the latter would be best for folk, but perhaps not doable as far as women goes. [10:12:14] I'm not at all sure on solutions to that one. [10:12:36] From what I can gather, women leave communities to find richer men, fitter men. [10:12:41] Poor fat men get left behind. [10:13:00] Now, some of the things rich men provide, our community could, so less reasons for them to leave. [10:13:01] rich fat men get left too? [10:13:07] eg. we might provide housing for everyone. [10:13:23] No, it seems a large enough wallet can make up for too much fat :-) [10:13:33] But if there is a choice between slim rich and fat rich, slim rich seems to win.. [10:13:43] Unless the person is old enough not to live long :-) [10:14:10] Women appear very intune with their ability to manage resources and choose the best mate accordingly. [10:14:10] Nanos, what about RBOSE. Do you see that as something that needs developing here as well? (not perhaps getting fatter/richer, but you get the idea) [10:14:23] eg. where the women go, is where the resources are! [10:14:39] What needs developing here, a more equal gender balance of users ? [10:15:01] Yes. Do you see that as a problem here aswell? [10:15:04] you dont have much women in IT [10:15:08] that explains [10:15:15] mm... I suppose its a problem here. [10:15:40] I tend to notice that men do the work and women bask in the results. [10:15:50] So we may not see women here much until there is something to offer them. [10:16:01] I've seen other places with lots of women, but that tends to be places they can meet rich men.. [10:16:23] I want to give development a more artistic sence. Through music, for example. [10:16:25] Theory thus seems to state that as we get richer, more women will come here.. [10:16:36] ewww [10:16:44] Kinda reminds me of a guy I know, who worked for years and years, and suddenly, when he was worth half a million, suddenly he became attractive to women.. [10:16:56] lol [10:17:10] ha [10:17:20] This woman, who he had known for 20 years, suddenly expressed a hidden interest in steam engines and stamp collecting.. [10:17:33] Now, call me suspicious :-) [10:18:03] Another friend, was in a £100k a year job, the week after he lost it, his wife left him for another man.. [10:18:19] Nanos, I can imagine some females finding huge monetary access attractive, but saying all do is imprecise. [10:18:34] I'd say the vast majority, rather than all. [10:18:54] Im not interested in getting masses, but rather very dedicated and interested. ^^ [10:19:04] (the nerds) [10:19:09] :D [10:19:13] I'm not sure there are enough of those to go around to be honest. [10:19:23] I find barely a handful in my entire country! [10:19:35] ^^ [10:19:39] check other country? haha [10:19:46] You dont find nerds, they find you. [10:19:48] As such, I think we may have to deal with 'normals' earlier than we like to think we would. [10:19:59] Perhaps. [10:20:18] A friend of mine has searched this country for 40 years and not found very many. [10:20:19] That depends on what kind of development your interested in of cource. [10:21:09] There are some who would like to help, but whose circumstances prevent them from doing so, so perhaps once one has a very small community, it might be possible to expend it with those people. [10:21:28] As such, I reckon my first community building efforts will consist of maybe nothing more than myself.. [10:21:51] Though I have found someone else to work with, they are 200 miles from me, so my first priority if you like is being able to afford to move to them. [10:21:57] *** Quits: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-f6e501eb.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [10:22:05] As two of us working in the same geograpical location would work better. [10:22:26] But the cost of moving is very expensive, as I need more than just to move, I need a job too. [10:22:40] And as there are no jobs there, I need to bring one with me.. [10:22:49] I think so to. Caly has a lot of space at his location. Some of us are considering building permanent living spaces there. [10:23:02] I think that would be a wise move myself. [10:23:19] Even if its only a short term solution to something bigger. [10:23:22] Especially since he as a big workshop. [10:23:32] Very handy. [10:23:59] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@5048B2.8BBB45.CFFDF2.5B349A) [10:24:01] Which country is Caly in again ? [10:24:07] Yes. I could kill weeks in one without knowing. [10:24:08] Sweden. [10:25:06] I think if we might manage at least one central location per country of effort, this could help, or perhaps one location for all of Europe. [10:25:19] I always though the US would do that best, eg. one location for everyone to move to. [10:25:19] Good idea. [10:25:32] Regarding what we talked about earlier: http://www.tezuka-arch.com/japanese/works/forest_of_net/img/01.jpg [10:25:46] Sweden is cold, though. [10:25:47] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-901ba432.bredband.skanova.com) [10:25:54] Interesting design that. [10:26:00] cold does = less crime I notice :-) [10:26:03] !morning all [10:26:04] ACTION wishes everbody in #RBOSE a wonderful morning and a great start in the day! [10:26:06] And a perfect campfire structure aswell ^^ [10:26:08] The place in the UK i'm looking at is very much up north and cold too! [10:26:15] Morning Julius [10:26:32] Yes, it does remind me of when I used to light fires at home with kinderling :-) [10:26:42] But land is cheap there.. [10:26:47] No jobs mind you.. [10:26:51] And the population is falling.. [10:26:54] Nanos: scotland or northern england then? [10:27:00] Which isn't necessarly a bad thing, as they want people to move there! [10:27:04] Shetland Islands [10:27:14] oh, that's cold, wet and windy [10:27:16] :) [10:27:21] Yep.. [10:27:35] But cheap land, and about the only place in the UK that welcomes development.. [10:27:57] And with half the population of nordic decent, the people are suprisingly extra helpful compared with the standard Britain.. [10:28:05] how's the fishing around there nowadays? [10:28:18] Completely collapsed due to failing populations? [10:28:20] Sounds like a fertile soil ^^ [10:28:41] Also, some parts have zero crime rate.. [10:28:45] I have to take care of some studies. Nice talking to you Nanos. Always is ^^ [10:28:49] *** kman is now known as kman-afk [10:28:51] Cost of living is 20% above UK normal. [10:28:57] Take care kman, likewise. [10:29:18] But that does mean, once we can supply things ourselves, it will be easier for us to compete against imports. (eg. locally grown food.) [10:29:40] hard to grow food there, I imagine, though [10:29:49] Industry there is on a downward spiral. [10:30:14] Well, you might think, but 100 years ago an island that now has a population of 56, supported 10,000 people because it had very fertile soil.. [10:30:37] Well, does it now, or was it all washed away? [10:30:39] But yes, I can imagine the weather is not kind to easy growing stuff. [10:30:51] Its still all there, tons of it :-) [10:31:03] Its used for sheep mostly.. [10:31:08] But that industry is dying off.. [10:31:09] ah, right [10:31:28] My thought is that reforesting some of it would be a good move, as that would also help shield crops somewhat. [10:31:33] And hydroponics perhaps.. [10:31:34] indeed [10:31:50] some kind of agroforestry solution [10:31:52] Wood would also double as an export product, and perhaps to run a power station with.. [10:32:12] Most of the islands have no trees at all. [10:32:24] I've yet to find out what the locals might think to trees.. [10:32:25] so 'internal' exports as it were? [10:32:31] Some parts of the country here are anti-tree.. [10:32:40] Yes. [10:32:43] Which is rather weird. [10:32:45] The mainland UK. [10:33:07] Its the eco-greens, very anti-industry of any sort. [10:33:29] That part of the UK as I said, is very open to development, not just because their population is falling and they have to be. [10:33:45] Thats not to say they don't like some things, like they are against a huge wind turbine farm being built locally.. [10:33:53] But they might easily go for say geothermal plants :-) [10:33:59] Less visible impact.. [10:34:03] Or perhaps a solar farm. [10:34:13] Not an ideal location, but more able to get it built there than elsewhere. [10:34:25] One shouldn't overlook the need to get things built V the need for the best place to put things. [10:34:32] Wave energy, perhaps? [10:34:44] Or smaller windmills [10:34:46] Perhaps, but thats very expensive. [10:34:55] smaller windmills is a possibility. [10:35:05] The locals have talked about smaller windmills being perhaps ok. [10:35:23] I look towards mw power outputs as I want to power industry, not just a few homes. [10:35:26] one or a few per house [10:35:44] eg. we might run a smelter plant, or something that requires huge amounts of electric to provide jobs. [10:36:08] eg. in Wales they recently shut our only aluminim smelter because the local nuclear power station is closing and the end of cheap electric. [10:36:12] Then you would need to import raw materials, or reuse garbage+ [10:36:24] garbage might be the new raw material.. [10:36:44] Yes, I don't think the islands have much in the way of natural raw materials to use. [10:36:59] Reminds me of Japan a bit, as they import lots of raw materials and export lots of finished goods. [10:37:07] I would advise to try to make things more efficient and run it on lower amounts of power. [10:37:25] Over time, I would want to see us buy up resource pockets in Europe, a mine here, and mine there kind of thing. [10:37:37] Yes, I quite agree, low power solutions all round. [10:37:39] That way, you'll have a head start when the power costs increase [10:37:47] Hence interest in earth sheltered designs to reduce the need for heating/cooling. [10:37:52] Better insulation of all houses etc. [10:38:16] I'm keen to build something like a small town, eg. 10,000 people capacity. [10:38:31] This could also give us a voting advance as the local population is only 20,000 to start with.. [10:38:40] advantage rather. [10:38:42] Didn't the whole archipelago hold 10000 people at its peak? [10:38:52] aha [10:38:56] nvm [10:39:09] This could allow us to more easily influence local policies. [10:39:16] Yes. [10:39:28] Work from the top down as well as from the bottom up. [10:40:02] At the moment the islands rather lack a decent top end solution. [10:40:08] eg. its poorly run. [10:40:19] hmm [10:40:19] But they have found no one better for now.. [10:40:48] They are not an easy folk to convince, they seem to be best brought over by results, eg. you can say what you like, but they only take notice of you when you actually do something. [10:41:08] A wise viewpoint. [10:41:12] As such, they are guarded to the idea of community building efforts, but not against them, and await results from early building efforts to see what they think of them. [10:41:19] If only there were more people like that ;) [10:41:40] When I showed up, they asked me tons of difficult and awkward questions, but they seemed relatively happy afterwards, one even offed me free land! [10:41:47] But free land alone isn't enough.. [10:42:05] I would need to create businesses there and generate money to be welcomed, one cannot just go and sponge off them :-) [10:42:10] True. [10:42:20] Its amusing to hear of them complaining about immigrants from Scotland :-) [10:42:28] So you know its an immigrant issue and not a race issue :-) [10:42:39] People coming and taking housing and getting benefits.. [10:42:56] As such, they are not very welcoming to folk that just turn up without a penny. [10:42:59] Well, there are a few ways to do that. The most obvious one is to get some general metalworking/CNC/RepRap equipment and start making things [10:43:25] Another is, as you were talking about, growing food or woods. [10:43:30] I look towards something like an online business, a hosting business, a call centre, something that you can move and take some workers with you. [10:43:49] Local people generally have those kind of things already in place, metalworking/etc. [10:44:04] eg. you'd be competing with locals, which I don't think is a good idea to start with. [10:44:16] Maybe not. [10:44:17] Best if you have a new industry you can bring to the islands, that will employ some local people. [10:44:34] In time, when you do start to compete, I think buying them out, letting them work for you and paying them more is the way to go about it. [10:44:44] I think you want to avoid making them go out of business. [10:45:02] Yes, probably. [10:45:03] instead you want to combine them with your building efforts in some way. [10:45:18] How's the connectivity? [10:45:19] I've seen communities start up and cause much resentment among the locals. [10:45:23] poor.. [10:45:50] They have adsl, but its 4mbit (And thats only because I kinda mentioned I'd be moving there soon and they upgraded everything a couple of years early, nice eh!) [10:46:10] As such, I think there is a market for higher speed internet, which would be nice to provide for free.. [10:46:19] Or at cost price at least. [10:46:53] Because they lack certain things there, in some ways still undeveloped, I think those are markets we can get into, because normally no one is interested due to th every low rate of return. [10:46:59] eg. we might provide low cost buses. [10:47:05] Things that make the locals like us! [10:47:25] Things that benefit us and them, and trade/etc. between us. [10:47:38] eg. I could see it a great place to have a vaccum train system between islands.. [10:47:53] Hard to provide internet without an upstream connection, though. Meaning undersea cables. [10:47:54] As at the moment the local authorities I believe run an expensive ferry system. [10:48:09] A microwave link might be possible with a few hops. [10:48:26] Still, you need to get global access, probably to the UK [10:48:29] We are about 100 miles from mainland, and microwave gets you about 50 miles I seem to recal. [10:48:54] I think they are about 100 miles from Europe and same from UK, slightly near to europe than UK I last recal. [10:49:05] depending on the weather [10:49:05] A tall enough microwave tower could probably manage it.. [10:49:19] One to UK and one to Europe would be nice. [10:49:27] Long-distance communication overseas is still best solved via cable [10:49:37] True, but such cables are very expensive! [10:49:44] A long term solution for sure yes. [10:50:00] To Europe? [10:50:01] 'spensive [10:50:09] Grab a connection to Norway instead [10:50:42] Or possibly via the Faeroys to Iceland [10:51:09] For now at least, broadband is available on some of islands, and in particular the one I'm looking at. [10:51:21] They have mains electric, sewage (Though only capacity for another 20 people..) [10:51:27] You have Fair Island about half-way to [10:51:29] *too [10:52:02] A lot of the population is overweight though, this concerns me. [10:52:23] I'm not sure what incentives one can offer to get people to lose weight. [10:52:34] A free gym, maybe have a little effect [10:53:15] Is one of the reasons I thought to design buildings without lifts, but lots of ramps, so you get fit walking from floor to floor :-) [10:53:23] But then people would use segways.. [10:53:41] I think you are overthinking things a bit :) [10:53:44] Is another reason for building an entire town, as then the roads can all be private, and segways can be legal on them. [10:54:16] I try to think of ways to stop and reverse the flow of women out of the area. [10:54:43] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@A96332.9941FA.D1E1D4.A69FB4) [10:55:03] There is an oppersite area in the UK that seems lots of women moving to it, and it also has the fittest and wealthest men there. [10:55:40] I think one of the reasons men get fit is when there are attractive women around, so one idea someone suggested to me is that we need to hire lots of attractive women for almost pointless jobs so as to encourage the men to get fit again. [10:56:00] I'm not sure on the legalness though of only hiring attractive women for jobs.. [10:56:16] Perhaps escort jobs where they get paid a basic wage, plus a bonus for each customer.. [10:56:30] That way, the attractive ones get paid more. [10:56:30] hehe [10:56:56] I thought of that in regard to a supermarket design approach, rather than tills, have escorts go around with customers and a hand held scanner. [10:57:05] Or it could also be self service.. [10:57:24] That way, no queues at checkout so much moving stuff out of trolly and back in again, just swipe and pay. [10:57:33] It would also provide jobs for low skilled people. [10:57:50] And enhance the customers experience of shopping with attractive company. [10:58:13] I think there is a need to marry automation with the human element to get the best of both worlds and supply jobs for the many unskilled people in the country. [10:58:28] As I'm sure many folk would enjoy being paid to chat and shop all day! [10:58:33] or just get people to learn skills [10:59:03] It can be rather expensive to teach skills, and not everyone can learn that much. (Eg. your probably still a large segment unable to do very much at all.) [10:59:14] In the old days these people got sent to war and killed off.. [10:59:32] Now,we have many unemployed and less easily solved. [10:59:43] Not that a well run community would need that many workers. [11:00:00] But I'm thinking, what can we do to get bums on seats. [11:00:10] eg. what can be used to attract people to move into the area. [11:00:21] Tarty escorts for when your shopping is one :-) [11:00:30] And it goes both ways, women too might like that.. [11:01:19] Probably easier in a country with less laws, where you can more easily micromanage your community design. [11:01:46] But as I'm in the UK, and I know it well, it seems logical to start a community here, even if the 2nd one gets built elsewhere. [11:02:12] It will be more difficult in many ways I imagine and less efficient in some areas, but I still think doable to produce a better living environment than anywhere else. [11:02:27] Anywhere else in the UK that is.. [11:02:50] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@A96332.9941FA.D1E1D4.A69FB4) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [11:03:06] Just get a lot of the things right, from having parking spaces big enough to fit your SUV in, to rubbish collections that actually collect all the rubbish, to call centres not staffed by idiots. [11:03:49] To housing the homeless, to keeping the streets clean, to street lighting that is bright enough to see that dog turd.. to low working hours and cheap rents.. [11:03:58] Or even, free housing.. [11:04:08] I think free housing would be a good selling point so to speak. [11:07:13] ...fit your SUV? [11:07:19] what hell? [11:08:19] People have big cars, many parking spaces are too small. [11:08:39] I reckon if we respond to the needs of the population, we will be onto a winner. [11:08:52] Many people ask for things, but don't get them, such as bigger parking spaces. [11:08:54] You're talking about prohibiting segways [11:09:10] But accomodating SUVs? [11:09:20] segways are currently illegal to use in the UK on anything but private land, in a community build with private roads, that problem goes away. [11:09:31] eg. people can use segways. [11:09:38] But many people also have SUV's [11:09:57] Being anti-SUV isn't going to win one any friends. [11:10:04] Providing alternatives to SUV use, will :-) [11:10:20] It is, among people concerned about fuel use. [11:10:25] But it helps to provide for SUV's, otherwise your just going to piss people off. [11:10:31] I would be friends with someone if all they did was claim to be anti-SVU [11:11:00] SVU's exist for several reasons, one of which is reliable, low cost transport that is safe. [11:11:13] I'd like to provide say a cheap or free taxi service, so people don't need to use their SVU's [11:11:14] In my experience, few people sporting SUVs are people I would like to include in my community anyway, but that's just me. [11:11:22] *hears a sound in the kitchen* [11:11:31] Nanos: WHAT? [11:11:34] Low cost? [11:11:39] *leave RBOSE chat room to investigate sound from kitchen* [11:11:54] What's the colour of the sky on your planet? [11:11:57] Yes, a at cost taxi service I reckon would give people a reason not to use their SVU's [11:11:59] what does a segway offer that a bike dont? :) [11:12:08] kalken: tech coolness [11:12:12] :D [11:12:28] Nanos: ...or just use smaller, cheaper, more fuel-efficient cars than SUVs? [11:12:42] Yes, but people choose a SUV for a reason, often multiable ones. [11:12:54] Nanos: The reason people get SUVs is not because of cheap transportation [11:13:03] Such as safety, safety from people, capacity to carry things, and ability to go off road. (more important in the countryside that one.) [11:13:08] people need SUVs to get over all those bumps in the middle of the road these days :) [11:13:14] Yes, those too.. [11:13:19] Hence I'd do away with speed bumps.. [11:13:21] How often do you think most people go off road in a SUV? [11:13:46] IN the countryside, quite often, in the town, hardly ever. (Unless you count the way my mum drives over flowerbeds to take shortcuts out of carparks..) [11:14:03] Not even in the countryside, believe me. [11:14:16] Having lived in the countryside, I'd disagree :-) [11:14:24] If people need to go offroad properly, they don't get a SUV. [11:14:39] They get a proper vehicle for doing that kind of stuff. [11:14:52] The SUV is a half way house between the two. [11:15:06] But I think ultaimtely its more about personal protection than anything else. [11:15:13] At least in the towns. [11:15:28] More security I think would reduce the need for such vehicles in a community. [11:15:28] Which is more about other people driving SUVs than anything else [11:15:44] Its more about getting mugged/car jacked I reckon. [11:15:58] As otherwise they could just drive a Volvo if it was about accidents. [11:16:18] How is a SUV safer from muggings/carjacking than a Volvo? [11:16:21] Also, being higher up gives you a better view of traffic. [11:16:41] SUV is more itimidating, and more practical if you need to ramp people. [11:16:50] Again, if many others drive SUVs, that advantage is negated also. [11:16:54] I tend to think of cars as like modern suits of armor. [11:17:06] The road is an arms race environment too. [11:17:25] More security/police = less need for big cars. [11:17:27] So people who for fuel efficiency reasons (or other reasons) choose not to get a SUV are to be shafted? [11:17:44] Shafted in what way ? [11:17:51] As their money is being spent on accomodating cars unsuited for city traffic? [11:17:57] With private roads, we can allow things like Segways that currently are not allowed on public roads. [11:18:05] Some of their money is. [11:18:14] Bigger parking spaces isn't going to cost very much at all. [11:18:54] several square meters per parking space, times many parking spaces, plus wider roads [11:18:57] Its a balance, spend some on SUV's, and some on other forms oftransport options, I would imagine the amount spent on pleasing SUV' drivers to be pretty small compared with the rest. [11:19:09] So, land is cheap :-) [11:19:27] Wide roads are always agood thing, espeically for moving stuff to do with industry. [11:19:27] still, SUVs are bad for traffic safety unless you're the one sitting in one [11:19:35] True. [11:20:01] Thats why we want to offer people better alteranatives, rather than saying, no to SUV's, otherwise you just annoy folk and they become anti you doing anything. [11:20:07] I would not move to a community specifically accomodating SUVs. [11:20:19] If instead you make things a little better for them, and provide alternatrives, you don't come across as anti car/etc. [11:20:35] Even if said community also accomodated Segways ? [11:21:03] Of course. Segways are a stupid mode of transportation anyway. [11:21:18] They solve no problem that bicycles do not already solve. [11:21:21] I suppose its like the issue of, alcohol free or vegan only food communities. [11:21:55] Either one tries to accept different solutions in the same space, or one denies one choice. [11:21:56] not really, but it is more expensive and cumbersome to accomodate SUVs than not, and SUVs are bad if you don't have one [11:22:17] so I see no reason why they should be given specific attention [11:22:22] But, in a community where many people have them, aliening your locals by being against them is not a sensible policy. [11:23:19] Showing your listening to their demands, and providing better solutions, is the way to change things and not be rejected by the locals by being anti-SUV. [11:23:21] people can use their driveways however they want, but I wouldn't want to have to pay half again as much for each parking space just because they have stupidly large cars. [11:23:40] I'm not anti, just not specifically pro. [11:23:57] The cars end up parked anywhere, with large bays, you avoid less trouble for everyone else trying to get past them. [11:24:27] I think its important to be accomdating as much as one can, otherwise whats the point of a community design if everyone hates it :-) [11:24:39] You need to find solutions that make the majority of people happy. [11:24:51] Rather than what we have at the moment, where the majority are unhappy.. [11:25:12] I believe it is human nature to complain. [11:25:15] That might mean for example, having a pub with alcohol, but having security guards to deal with trouble makers, rather than no alcohol at all. [11:25:27] True, but often complaints are mostly justified I noticed.. [11:25:33] Its what drives progress, complaints :-) [11:25:41] And often contradictory, even from the same person. [11:26:03] I still think we can do far better by listening to the complaints and fixing the majority of them. [11:26:31] eg. speed bumps, don't seem to work well in the middle of long roads, so remove them.. [11:26:35] It's going to cost money and resources, though. [11:26:38] True. [11:26:50] But it will make people happier, and that at the end of the day I think is the most important thing. [11:27:01] At the moment, everything is done too cheap and it annoys folk. [11:27:09] And money and resources are scarce. [11:27:12] True. [11:27:23] Which is why I favour effiency, so what resources do exist, are used wisely. [11:27:38] Planned obsolence is not doing things too cheap, it's keeping your job going after market saturation. [11:27:40] And I also favour economic growth, so that more resources become available. [11:28:01] I'm not keen on planned obsolence either in design. [11:28:04] There are only finite resources, though. [11:28:14] True. [11:28:40] No more land is available than there is, except via hugely expensive land expansion projects. [11:28:44] There is somewhat a limit to growth in some areas so to speak. [11:28:50] Agreed. [11:29:00] Population control thus is needed to prevent overuse of land. [11:29:13] Thats another, difficult thing to engineer in the developed world as we are less allowed to tell people not to have kids. [11:29:27] And if you want to have a somewhat functioning ecosystem, quite a bit of it will be needed for various 'natural' areas. [11:29:39] It might be possible to influence population enough with incentives, but I'm not sure about that. [11:29:47] Nanos: population growth is negative in the developed countries, at least most of them. [11:29:56] Agreed about the need for natural areas. [11:30:03] Japan and the nothern countries being notable examples. [11:30:14] Indeed, it does seem that as wealth goes up, population starts to fall. [11:30:28] population control is not going to be a problem, in general. [11:30:33] So we might be in the situation that we need more births, rather than less.. [11:30:44] Well, in the UK at the moment it is :-) [11:30:55] Is it? [11:31:03] The area I'm looking at has negative population growth, whilst the area I'm living in has population explosion! [11:31:25] I hardly think there is such a thing as a population explosion anywhere in the western world. [11:31:33] So, first I'd need to increase the population and then stop it from growing too much, and then probably have to stop it falling again! [11:31:35] There may be a lot of immigration, though. [11:31:46] You try queing to get into my bathroom behind 50 other folk :-) [11:32:06] immigration is a difficult problem I reckon. [11:32:19] Even internally in a country. [11:32:26] eg. everyone wants to move to the nice areas. [11:32:32] So, how do you ration space ? [11:32:43] At the moment, its based on what you can afford, eg. your wealth. [11:32:46] But is there another way ? [11:33:14] Of course there is. [11:33:19] I'd like to try and avoid shanty towns being built outside our city walls so to speak. [11:33:24] Suggestions ? [11:33:54] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@A96332.4D8120.2FBE55.FAA48E) [11:34:23] Shanty towns are not a problem in the cold climates. People are not willing to freeze to death in order to have a chance for a job. [11:34:38] *** Joins: geekay (qwebirc@65CD78.1F91BD.2C387E.7D4BE0) [11:34:43] Yes, thats generally my thought too. [11:35:15] But as one expands and builds communities in less cold areas, I'm not sure how to deal with that issue. [11:35:27] There are few good ways of distributing space, but in general, if some space is unused and open for claims, I see no problem with people claiming it. [11:35:54] its when the space is full I see difficulties arising. [11:36:08] It seldom is. [11:36:10] To avoid overcrowding issues, like we experience now. [11:36:24] You think UK is overcrowded? [11:36:27] Try Japan. [11:36:28] Some parts yes. [11:36:36] Where I live, its more densely populationed than Japan.. [11:36:45] Than Tokyo? [11:36:48] yes! [11:36:53] Where? [11:36:56] Southall [11:37:55] hallo [11:38:22] Hello there geekay [11:38:34] hello nanos [11:39:03] can i integrate rbose to my website [11:39:16] Nanos: do you have a source for that statement? [11:40:00] I live in Southall in an overcrowded house.. [11:40:53] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7505574.stm this is where I live. [11:40:55] URL Title: BBC NEWS | UK | Migrant criminal network exposed (at news.bbc.co.uk) [11:41:45] I've been here 12 years, so I'm well aware of the overcrowding issues, eg. 50 people to a 3 bedroom house, people living under bridges, next to schools, 1,500 homeless who live just a few roads from me. [11:42:32] People come here for jobs, a lot of people. [11:42:52] In what way do you wish to integrate RBOSE ? [11:43:17] It reminds me of a South Park episode, where people from the future came to the past because there are jobs. [11:43:26] If we can make their world nice enough, they won't need to come here so much. [11:43:48] But still, there will be demand to move to some areas more than others, such as like the nice seaside places. [11:44:09] If there was less focus on jobs and on more focus on living, too. [11:44:21] Is one reason I'm keen on something like a basic standard of living package for free, so people don't have to move to find work. [11:44:28] Agreed. [11:45:03] People here can live in awful conditions, raw sewage, cockroaches, and thats just me! [11:45:43] I want to help people, not just myself. [11:46:12] Here, you have the exploited, the illegal workers on 50p an hour doing building work with no safety gear, no training. [11:46:28] pettter: people need do make money! lol [11:46:45] kalken: Yes, and why is that? [11:47:12] we trade pieces of paper with each other. The real value is what you get for the money, and that can change only when peoples mindset change [11:47:13] Hence ideas like a power company that offers free electric to domestic customers, is something I could see being built here, with a few workers housing to go along with it. [11:47:38] pettter: "because its the way it is", is often the answer i get [11:47:43] I see neighbours of mine living in spaces small than some peoples toilets. [11:48:19] I see landlords exploiting people, but I also see landlords trying to help, but not many of those.. [11:48:36] Housing being one of the big money spinners in society. [11:48:39] pettter: i want to give my vote to a party that has a goal to maximize unemployment :D [11:48:47] Just about every rich person I know how property they rent out. [11:49:03] I would like to maximise employment, but minimise working hours.. [11:49:19] Why hire someone to work 40 hours, when you could hire 4 people to work 10 hours each.. [11:49:34] less training [11:49:40] less paperwork [11:49:44] True. [11:49:46] Etc. etc. [11:49:49] still in the system of profit, so nobody is interested in giving away hours (money) [11:49:54] But the extra cost I reckon wouldn't be that much. [11:50:05] problem can not be solved in the system that created the problems [11:50:15] And at the end of the day, those 4 people have spending money, rather than only one.. [11:50:21] Perhaps.. [11:50:24] Perhaps it can be. [11:50:31] We can at least test out solutions and see what works better. [11:50:40] As such, I'm open to all solutions to test them. [11:50:55] Even the money capitalist ones.. [11:50:56] people will always optimize (e.g take on a behaviour that is benificial). Thats what we need to focus on [11:51:03] Agreed kalken [11:51:24] in profitbased society it will always be geting as much as you can for as little as possible [11:51:31] I think we all want the same thing at the end of the day, but we might not necessarly agree on the way to that, but I think we can probably agree on the need to test solutions. [11:51:38] Nanos: My piece of advice would be to start small-scale, distributed. [11:51:45] Nanos: indeed :) [11:51:55] Agreed about small scale, not quite sure what you mean by distributed though. [11:52:04] nobody has a complete solution, as always :) [11:52:23] I find sharing solutions among people, aka brainstorming to be a good way to find better solutions. [11:52:35] I've found IRC to be particularly fruitful in that endeaviour. [11:52:39] Nanos: many places, many homes, interspersed with 'normal' society. [11:52:49] Which is why I think its sucha shame TZM stopped IRC, as its a very productive environment for problem solving. [11:52:56] TZM? [11:52:59] Ah, now I understand you. [11:53:04] The Zeitgiest Movement. [11:53:11] US site stopped its IRC service. [11:53:13] Nanos: but the thing i fear is that people tend to think in right or wrong, when discussing todays problems. And imo its not about that. If one starts to follow the money, and how people optimize todays society, everything gets more logical [11:53:23] its not about doing the right thing anymore [11:53:31] it has not been for a long time [11:53:41] kalken: Was it ever? [11:53:42] has anyone heared about this? http://www.examinedlifeinstitute.com [11:53:43] URL Title: The Examined Life Institute (at www.examinedlifeinstitute.com) [11:53:55] pettter: i dont know, i'm not that old :) [11:54:34] i just know that everything is connected, and it foolish to think otherwise :) [11:55:03] I tend towards more a central solution than distributed, as I see the benefits in shared resources reducing costs, eg. if 20 people live in houses close to each other, its more efficient than if those same people live miles apart. [11:55:08] Well, we can make new connections ;) [11:55:20] yea :) [11:55:26] bbl lunch [11:55:31] At the moment, we are in a distributed solution as most of us don't live next to each other, so cannot say share electric bills. [11:55:48] Nanos: As long as they live within, say five miles or so, travel is cheap. [11:55:53] We are using a central communication system though at the moment, as the internet does allow that more easily. [11:56:18] travel might be cheap, but to say provide electric to everyone would be less cheap to do so unless the houses was right next to each other. [11:56:38] And vegetables and other foods will not spoil. [11:56:40] I look towards a community design that can reduce those costs, such as electric. [11:57:02] At the moment, each house consumes a lot of our resources to keep, a shared house is far more efficient. [11:57:07] As for electricity, say that they keep most of the power-hungry equipment (servers, machine shop etc.) in one place [11:57:23] Reducing our costs would mean more money available to spend on other more important things. [11:57:50] There is also the social aspect as well, if you can just walk to your neighbours house in a minute or two, verse having to drive there. [11:58:01] biking [11:58:04] Frankly, i allready see most issues solved just by using the kind of technologie and systems that Eartships use. [11:58:23] 5-10k is short enough, although 500-1000m is better [11:58:25] As such, my first community building effort I think will be towards a 20 person housing complex, perhaps even a single building. [11:58:35] yes, I am a fan of earthships, pity they aren't legal in the UK for living in. [11:59:18] To act as a catalyist hub, so that income generation can be maximised and money available to spend on expanding the community, rather than keeping it running with ongoing costs. [11:59:31] the next area i see houses getting more efficient is a modular system with a variety of power inputs and outputs, water, air etc, so that all heat exchanging and heat radiating energys get reused as well. [11:59:35] After that, look more towards building housing further apart, but not miles :-) [11:59:48] Yes, that would be a good idea Caly. [12:00:30] Nanos: such suystem could reuse temperature from intake/outlat air, as well as intak/outlet water or sewage. [12:00:43] there is energy to be generated and reused everywhere. [12:01:07] Agreed. I've seen some systems like that for heat exchanging warm outgoing air with colder incoming air. [12:01:16] Caly: It's hard without sufficient temperature differentials though. [12:01:24] not really. [12:01:44] just use a leverage techniue, sterling engine for example. [12:02:04] You need a rather large temperature differential to run a sterling engine. [12:02:15] I'd in particular like sewage treatment to be 100%, rather than it being dumped into the sea like many places. [12:02:16] I think 20K is a reasonable minimum [12:02:19] use lower differentials to work lower temperatureswitching, like for ventilation. [12:02:38] 20K? [12:03:08] Another reason I'm keen to provide worker housing, so we can more easily control what gadgets people have in their homes, eg.we can supply low energy solutions. [12:03:11] K as in? [12:03:16] A central laundry service would probably be a good idea too.. [12:03:22] Caly: Degrees Kelvin [12:03:27] Make it free, or at cost to encourage take up. [12:03:28] right. [12:03:34] Of difference in temperature. [12:03:52] Same with food, better if we can provide food, rather than people cook it themselves, as I hear fridges/freezers account for something like 25% of all domestic energy consumption. [12:04:13] Hence I'd been keen to see good quality restraunts provided in a community. [12:04:22] But then the issue of people eating too much comes up.. [12:04:43] Perhaps one could pay people a basic wage, plus a bonus dependant on how many times around a lap they can run.. [12:04:43] pettter: on the other hand, what do you define as "sufficient temperature differentials" ? [12:04:51] and how warm is 20K? [12:05:25] Caly: It's not a question of 'how warm', it's a question of 'how big is the difference between the cooling and the heating media' [12:06:19] right, well, if we are talking a differential of 100C, between hot water and a freezer you have it. [12:06:20] * Nanos watches discussion for a moment. [12:06:38] And you want that temperature differential to equalise? [12:06:55] i.e. you want the freezer to thaw and the hot water to cool? [12:07:58] Because the stirling engine runs by evening out temperature differences [12:08:18] i mean, you combine stuff like say a fridge that generates heat (extracts heat energy from it's confinement) and cool water that you need to heat for the shower. [12:08:19] making cool places warmer, and hot places cooler. [12:08:38] You have the wrong idea about energy and heat. [12:08:58] Heat is not at all interesting unless you have a cool place that needs warming. [12:09:11] you can extract moist from the exhaust air from your greenhouse and put it back in, and perhaps even use it to maiost the intake air. [12:09:39] things like that, to save resources, and ONLY use the differetial power edd needed. [12:10:01] I understand what caly is getting at. [12:10:05] *add [12:10:11] Second law of thermodynamics. You've heard of it, I believe? [12:10:59] what about it? [12:11:09] Temperatures tend to even out. You need to add energy to a system to increase (or even maintain) differences in temperature. [12:12:36] There are stirling engines that require low temperature differentials, though, but I believe they need a rather high precision manufacturing process. [12:12:49] yeah, well, if i cool the indoor temperature by using thermal mass cooling by burying a vent pipe in the grounnd.... [12:13:37] The cooling pipe will be heated throu out the season, to be pre-heating the intake air when it's cold outside [12:13:39] You are simultaneously heating up the ground. [12:13:52] Remember to make those vent pipes big enough to clean as I have heard reports of some filling up with mould. [12:14:10] Me, I@m going for man sized pipes :-) [12:14:12] i never said to invent a perpetual energyproducing home. [12:14:40] i meant i can significanly lower energy consumption by combining techniques wasting it now. [12:14:50] heatpumps are a good way of heating/cooling a house from what I know, rather than using the energy directly for heating/cooling purposes. [12:15:42] And, my understanding of earth sheltered homes is that they require very little heating/cooling because of their insulation. [12:16:19] Nanos: I believe they have other problems, though, but none that can't be overcome. [12:16:21] And also a large thermal mass in a building can help keep the temp level more easily, as such I'm keen to use materials like concrete for that, with insulation on the outside. [12:16:39] a car uses the same air cooler to pre-cool air for engines ans well as to the cabin, the exess heat from the engine are used to heat the cabin at will. Regenerative breaks restore energy to the powertrain, etc etc. [12:16:48] exaplkes of the same principle. [12:18:03] you could theoretically have a pellet burner that ALSO took care of the light radiation energy (solar power) [12:18:04] Caly: It's easy enough if you control the complete structure. The issue with homes is that different people tend to have different requirements and wishes how the house is to be set up. [12:18:28] pettter: but indeed, that's whu modularity is of an exxence. [12:18:28] *** Quits: DeLrge-wrk (Lotuz@RBOSE-6d6e0536.business.telia.com) (Connection closed) [12:18:57] And further; houses tend to last a long time, meaning technology is likely to march on, leaving the house potentially outdated before it is even close to being worn out structurally. [12:19:17] you can still have a main support structure, like one engine for pumping and central vaccumcleaner and whatever. Central water and energy nodes and so on. [12:19:37] A reason I want to design my houses with regular anchor points on all the walls, so new fittings can be added and removed without drilling so many holes! [12:19:57] hehe [12:20:19] And also rental model over ownership, as owners tend to constantly change their houses.. [12:20:33] do we really need to change our wallpaper every year for a hundred years.. [12:20:52] so anyway, in a smart hose central node, you could add as big a fridge as you want, as big a water heater as you want, add 1,5, 12 or 120V at will. [12:20:55] not every year, but maybe every five to ten years or so [12:20:59] etc. [12:21:30] I just happen to know someone that changes their yearly :-) but I do see houses brought and sold, and every time its sold, the new owners rip out something like the entire kitchen and replace it with a different one. [12:21:34] Leading to much waste.. [12:22:02] The current society is too materialistic and focused on 'the new' to be sure. [12:22:08] Indeed. [12:22:14] The problem is really that money has come to equal status. [12:22:23] Being poor, I@m used to using what is available, doesn't matter to me if its 50years out of fashion. [12:22:35] yeah, that waste could be vastly reduced with things that is built to LAST and just shared and swapped at will. [12:22:44] Agreed Caly. [12:22:47] And thus you need to show off your money in order to maintain your status. [12:23:10] Caly: You need an alternate measure of status in that case. [12:23:12] It is the tradional way to attact a mate. [12:24:00] oh well, I need to do some AFK stuff [12:24:05] pettter: status? [12:24:07] okie dokie [12:24:11] Talk to you guys later. [12:24:15] Cheers :) [12:24:19] Caly: In society. [12:24:19] I think if we are to change that, it will take a long time to evolve that into our behaviour. [12:24:27] Take care, nice chatting with you. [12:24:47] I look at domesticated animals when I think of what we can evolve into.. [12:25:13] I think that wee need some progress in Open Source hardware, so that people see what OS development really mean, and how it could drastically oimprove their life in a very real and direct way. [12:25:24] Agreed. [12:25:37] like ofc. the immense options given by the promises of the RepRap technilogy [12:25:40] I'm somewhat going that route with my vehicle. [12:26:07] The design becoming more open source, rather than less as time goes by. [12:26:08] right, as do i with TTLP etc. [12:26:42] Its a balance between producing something to help people, and making enough money to put a roof over my head. [12:27:10] GI hope we'll soon get a little more into focus on the resource handling systems we talked about, the webservices and OSH/OSF stuff. [12:27:14] Similar with my forum software, I want to provide free acounts, but I also need to pay for the server costs! [12:27:43] As such, I think some accounts will be free, and some paid for to allow that to happen. [12:27:59] But making it open source, I don't see how I can cover the server costs. [12:28:17] If I could cover the server costs in some way, then I would make it open source. [12:28:36] You can see my dilemna.. [12:29:31] I hear some people have success with adverts on their site, so I'm going to explore that possibility some with the free accounts and see if that can generate enough revenue. [12:29:32] Nanos: I can provide hosting and some bandwidth if you need it [12:29:45] I already have some, but I'm talking about enough to supply say 500 million accounts.. [12:29:57] And the support staff to go along with that too.. [12:30:03] Umm.. What? [12:30:10] Nanos: well, the answer ofcourse is to make the users the servers, just as with torrent, so thet the system gets better the MORE people that uses it. [12:30:12] Well, I'd like it to be the next Facebook. [12:30:18] It won't be. [12:30:26] It might.. after all, Facebook was once. [12:30:32] I reckon I can do it better than Facebook. [12:30:40] The next facebook will likely be distributed. [12:31:22] Thats quite good to solve the server issue, but it doesn't solve the support issue nor the design of the software to make sure it actually provides what users need. [12:32:10] Open source at times works, but at other times doesn't, its the doesn't part that concerns me. [12:32:55] eg. no ones produced an open source forum system that in my view is as good as it could be in some 20 years, the chances are it won't happen in the next 20 years, so how can we solve that and also apply the same solution to other necessary designed products/etc. [12:33:18] Define 'forum system'? [12:33:22] eg. when I look at CCTV software, I see Zoneminder, but it doesn't do everything I want, nor a lot of what other people want, and no one is coding those solutions. [12:33:22] You mean like phpBB? [12:33:30] Yes a little like phpBB [12:33:46] When I look at commerical CCTV software, its a little better, but still far from perfect. [12:33:53] So I see problems with both approachs. [12:34:13] The problem with BB/Forum software in general is that different fora have different requirements [12:34:18] Nanos: well, heard of, for example, http://noserub.com/ , http://www.slideshare.net/pascalvanhecke/decentralized-social-networking , http://rndbackyard.vodafone.com/2010/04/decentralized-social-networking-more-real-than-ever/ , http://wpmu.org/decentralized-social-networking-coming-to-wordpress-multisite-and-buddypress/ [12:34:19] URL Title: NoseRub - The home of decentralized, social networks (at noserub.com) [12:34:23] I marriage between the two in some way I think could be benefical. (I suppose like one see's API's published, that let users more easily code functions they want.) [12:35:22] The best forum I know of is the teamliquid.net forum, and that has the constant supervision and updating of a wizard hacker behind it. [12:35:29] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_decision_making [12:35:30] I'm already working on something you might call similar to that, based on a design thats over 20 years old :-) [12:35:30] URL Title: Decentralized decision making - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) [12:35:48] But the issue of, who pays for support staff does rig its ugly head. [12:36:26] Nanos: this is by far the most viable solution out there today: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/196017994/diaspora-the-personally-controlled-do-it-all-distr [12:36:27] URL Title: Decentralize the web with Diaspora by Daniel G. Maxwell S. Raphael S. Ilya Z. Kickstarter (at www.kickstarter.com) [12:36:37] and the one with thte most hype i believe. [12:36:48] That is the issue with most forum software. The software itself is rather good, but it needs supervision and support, which people in general do not get. [12:36:58] Caly: Appleseed [12:37:02] It is a nice and fast forum. [12:37:13] Seen that one, its interesting. [12:37:34] http://appleseedproject.org/ [12:37:38] URL Title: Welcome To The Appleseed Social Network @ appleseedproject.org (at appleseedproject.org) [12:38:11] It would be similar to say an open source vehicle, people could build it, but then those that don't and get one from someone else, need support when it goes wrong, and that quality level of support is an issue. [12:38:35] Thats one of the problems I want to solve by building vehicles and offering very good customer support, something lacking from many car companies today. [12:38:49] In fact, it seems most companies lack decent customer support across all products.. [12:38:55] The entire world sucks! [12:38:57] No, but it requires money and effort. [12:39:10] Which most companies do not spend. [12:39:16] Every product I have has a problem, and every manufactor is a PITA to get to fix it, if your lucky! [12:39:28] Because most customers won't see it [12:39:39] Thats why I think we can steal their customers by providing a product that is good with support. [12:39:53] It reminds me of my dad when he was in business, competitors would come and go, and they always went, because his customer support was better. [12:40:08] I wish you good luck with that, but I think it will be difficult without marketing [12:40:18] Agreed. [12:40:28] Though, word of mouth marketing via the internet might work well. [12:41:07] It might work, at least. [12:41:10] My thinking there is, once a product is good enough, word will spread. [12:41:14] anyway, I was doing AFK stuff [12:41:16] bb :) [12:41:20] * Nanos waves [12:41:41] So, once any of my products is good enough, success! [12:41:50] Until then, I'm unknown.. [12:42:11] I'll just keep plugging away at things and maybe one day.. [12:42:55] * Nanos wonders if Caly has seen his latest pre-alpha site.. http://www.prediction4lottery.com Silverlight though.. [12:42:56] URL Title: Prediction 4 Lottery (at www.prediction4lottery.com) [12:43:19] Just installed a paypal button yesterday in case I get any paying customers.. [12:43:29] Now to keep improving the site until some show up.. [12:46:08] *** Joins: jonas (jonas@RBOSE-cf498417.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [12:46:26] *** Parts: jonas (jonas@RBOSE-cf498417.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [12:51:42] *** Joins: DeLrge-wrk (Lotuz@RBOSE-6d6e0536.business.telia.com) [12:53:30] *** Joins: [777] (qwebirc@RBOSE-7d11b219.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [12:56:43] *** Quits: kman-afk (kman@RBOSE-28808f64.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [12:57:56] *** Quits: geekay (qwebirc@65CD78.1F91BD.2C387E.7D4BE0) (Quit: Page closed) [13:00:56] nein! [13:11:44] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-c9131efe.supraktv.hu) [13:12:01] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-c9131efe.supraktv.hu) [13:12:55] *** Quits: DerAKTIVist (DerAKTIVist-Z@RBOSE-13c20df8.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [13:23:39] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@A96332.4D8120.2FBE55.FAA48E) (Client closed the connection) [13:43:49] don't be stupid [13:44:09] ... be gay [13:44:26] <[777]> hey this channel isnt a mirror [13:44:27] <[777]> ;D [13:56:58] :----5) [13:57:09] bread() function in bsd is odd and undescribed in my book [13:57:14] I am polite to say I am just slightly retarded [14:08:24] please stop being rude [14:09:18] *** Joins: kman-afk (kman@RBOSE-28808f64.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [14:09:59] *** Joins: Dfjpw (qwebirc@RBOSE-875b8eeb.bredband.comhem.se) [14:11:01] *** Dfjpw is now known as Guest40993 [14:11:32] *** Quits: Guest40993 (qwebirc@RBOSE-875b8eeb.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Page closed) [14:15:53] http://www.bitcoin.org/ [14:15:54] URL Title: Bitcoin P2P Cryptocurrency | Bitcoin (at www.bitcoin.org) [14:21:42] <[777]> l8erz [14:21:51] *** Quits: [777] (qwebirc@RBOSE-7d11b219.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Page closed) [14:49:53] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-e6ebb2a4.tbcn.telia.com) [15:10:21] *** Joins: user92134 (qwebirc@RBOSE-2ac0f434.rubicom.hu) [15:11:31] user92134: wo0t wo0t [15:21:43] DNS: my boy [15:21:48] how are you darling? :) [15:22:02] Is the wiki-script easy to extract and implement? :) [15:22:09] wikibotscript that is [15:22:12] the feeds [15:22:31] *** Quits: nocaic (ciacon@RBOSE-addeb1c0.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [15:23:16] 0_o [15:23:26] im not your darling [15:23:31] ,smack GhettoTux [15:23:32] * rBOTse smacks GhettoTux with a kick [15:23:35] lol [15:23:38] smack with a kick? :D [15:23:40] lol [15:23:43] but thx im fine [15:23:45] :D [15:23:56] you must ask lukas [15:24:03] he written in mainly [15:24:05] but lukas has semi vanished :) [15:24:07] *it [15:24:12] what [15:24:33] *** Joins: nocaic (ciacon@RBOSE-4540666e.adsl.alicedsl.de) [15:24:42] * DNS is buildin mumble 1.2.3 developer snapshot from git atm [15:27:49] GhettoTux: btw u should find the source of the bot at our launchpad account [15:28:00] google rbose launchpad [15:28:01] https://launchpad.net/~rbose [15:35:51] cheers [15:36:04] look in #developers [15:36:06] ;D [15:45:40] *** user92134 is now known as valamiemberi2415215 [15:47:08] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (Sixth_Ape@RBOSE-bac6e26d.mweb.co.za) (Client closed the connection) [15:48:02] *** Quits: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) (Quit: Page closed) [15:49:09] *** Joins: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) [15:51:03] *** Quits: DeLrge-wrk (Lotuz@RBOSE-6d6e0536.business.telia.com) (Quit: Take the rag away from your face, now ain't the time for your tears.) [16:04:13] *** Joins: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-f6e501eb.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [16:11:01] ,quote random [16:11:01] DNS: Quote #98: "Action: the last resource of those who know not how to dream. ~ Oscar Wilde" (added by dns at 12:36 AM, August 06, 2010) [16:18:41] ,quote random [16:18:41] BranManFloMizzle: Quote #76: "As for me, all I know is that I know nothing. ~ Socrates" (added by dns at 12:28 AM, August 05, 2010) [16:19:53] ,quote random [16:19:53] DNS: Quote #28: "Escape the Gates of hell. Use Linux. ~ Winfried Trümper" (added by dns at 02:19 AM, August 04, 2010) [16:19:58] ,quote random [16:19:58] DNS: Quote #98: "Action: the last resource of those who know not how to dream. ~ Oscar Wilde" (added by dns at 12:36 AM, August 06, 2010) [16:20:04] 0_o [16:20:13] ,quote random [16:20:13] DNS: Quote #35: "Each problem that I solved became a rule, which served afterwards to solve other problems. ~ Rene Descartes" (added by dns at 01:58 PM, August 04, 2010) [16:21:37] http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/238/8/6/Shimmer_by_fhrankee.jpg [16:22:04] sweet [16:22:43] :) [16:23:02] very nice eyes [16:23:17] @_@ [16:32:01] my friend took this photo recently [16:32:02] http://yaoi.se/art/files/art/1610.jpg [16:32:07] he was blinded by her eyes he said :D [16:32:10] awsum blue [16:34:45] DNS>@_@ <--- Indeed. [16:35:34] http://yaoi.se/art/files/art/1610.jpg <--- Is it me or do those eyes look photoshopped? [16:36:13] hehe.. it crossed my mind.. [16:36:31] any here with ubntu on i386+ ? [16:36:44] and want to test mumble 1.2.3 ? :D [16:37:27] Hmmm... [16:37:57] not shooped :D [16:38:03] it has recording function in it already [16:38:11] at least can any1 plz join mumble [16:38:15] i want to test some [16:38:17] :D [16:38:21] !m [16:38:23] Online @ RBOSE's Mumble: (For Mumble help, type: ?? mumble) [16:38:25] not shooped :D <--- You sure? They are bright as hell. [16:38:25] In AFK - Away From Keyboard: Viper [16:38:26] LoL [16:38:27] In 01 Priv: DNS [16:38:40] BranManFloMizzle: yeah that's why he took pictures of her to begin with :D [16:38:43] it has recording function in it already <--- Oh hell yeah. [16:38:44] her fucking eyes [16:39:11] I guess they look bright to me with the dark red hair. [16:39:14] * BranManFloMizzle wonders [16:39:40] Where can I download it DNS? [16:40:08] but this will delete current version except settings [16:40:18] http://rbose.org/stats/mumble_20100826-1_i386.deb [16:40:21] just created it [16:40:26] Hmmm... So you want me to join you in MUMBLE I have now? [16:40:35] or this [16:40:37] ;D [16:40:43] *** Joins: Calyp (Caly@RBOSE-901ba432.bredband.skanova.com) [16:42:14] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-901ba432.bredband.skanova.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [16:42:30] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) [16:43:31] *** BranManFloMore is now known as Guest31427 [16:46:39] *** Joins: Sky (Sky-RBOSE@059A58.5B2BEB.8A8906.1BFCEA) [16:47:20] !m [16:47:22] Online @ RBOSE's Mumble: (For Mumble help, type: ?? mumble) [16:47:24] In AFK - Away From Keyboard: Viper [16:47:26] In Projects: DNS [16:47:28] In Wiki: BranManFloMore [16:48:17] *** Joins: hakufu (hakufu@RBOSE-7e2be303.bredband.comhem.se) [16:48:59] *** Quits: Sky (Sky-RBOSE@059A58.5B2BEB.8A8906.1BFCEA) (Quit: www.RBOSE.org) [16:54:20] *** Joins: Atomraider (Atomraider@RBOSE-6f29afa4.catv.broadband.hu) [16:58:04] !m [16:58:05] Online @ RBOSE's Mumble: (For Mumble help, type: ?? mumble) [16:58:07] In AFK - Away From Keyboard: Viper [16:58:09] In Projects: DNS BranManFloMore grits [17:00:37] *** Joins: MicRobiBot (supybot@5048B2.8BBB45.CFFDF2.5B349A) [17:00:50] *** Quits: MicRobiBot (supybot@5048B2.8BBB45.CFFDF2.5B349A) (Quit: Ctrl-C at console.) [17:01:55] ?x [17:02:05] *** Joins: MicRobiBot (supybot@5048B2.8BBB45.CFFDF2.5B349A) [17:04:50] *** Joins: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-13254bff.epm.net.co) [17:05:28] I need to get laid [17:05:41] neocortex: will you get me laid? [17:05:43] !hug neocortex [17:05:46] * RBOSE hugs neocortex for GhettoTux and hopes that neocortex enjoys it. :) [17:07:20] DNS: is it working? [17:08:48] *** Parts: MicRobiBot (supybot@5048B2.8BBB45.CFFDF2.5B349A) [17:09:13] *** Quits: valamiemberi2415215 (qwebirc@RBOSE-2ac0f434.rubicom.hu) (Quit: Page closed) [17:09:22] *** Guest31427 was kicked by DNS (User terminated!) [17:09:49] was not bran :x [17:09:58] yes for me it is [17:10:09] but im not able to test all [17:10:17] server needs to be updated too to 1.2.3 [17:10:26] Hmmm... [17:12:19] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) [17:13:20] *** BranManFloMore is now known as Guest42659 [17:15:53] *** Quits: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-13254bff.epm.net.co) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [17:25:20] *** kman-afk is now known as kman [17:27:29] server needs to be updated too to 1.2.3 <--- So you're going to update it? [17:27:46] yes [17:28:17] Sweet. [17:28:18] i do it in a few mins [17:28:26] Take your time. [17:29:06] :) [17:41:01] our "education" system is truly disgusting [17:41:14] if you look at schools in the US 150 years ago [17:41:30] look what they had to work with [17:41:37] a room full of rows of chairs [17:41:39] a teacher [17:41:42] a blackboard [17:41:44] and chalk [17:41:59] fast forward 150 years [17:42:04] we see the exact same thing [17:42:08] blackboards and chalk [17:42:27] This kind of makes you question the empathic nature of reality >-< [17:42:27] http://ircz.de/static/pics/2010/07/12_08_05_34/G5HLB.gif [17:42:43] what do you mean the empathic nature of reality [17:42:47] Well, the last time I was in school, I remember see boards with markers and people doing more power point presentations. [17:43:11] okay a whiteboard instead of a blackboard [17:43:12] same sht [17:43:14] shit [17:43:16] But I do think that students should carry light load instead of heavy textbooks and be supplied with labtops. [17:43:22] *** Quits: Guest42659 (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [17:43:32] Those backpacks and killing the student spine. [17:43:35] children shouldn't even be in schools [17:44:21] Well, I see nothing wrong with students being around their peers, the last thing I would want to see if kids becoming anti-social by not going to school. [17:44:30] We just need to better the schools. [17:44:57] same sht <--- Moving to markers from chalk is better. [17:45:00] no, we need to abandon this idea of institutional education entirely [17:45:15] No student has to go outside and bang out the chalk erasers and choke from doing it. [17:45:29] what makes you think going to school makes kids "social" [17:45:35] you've clearly fallen for the propaganda [17:45:52] no, we need to abandon this idea of institutional education entirely <--- I don't know, but I don't see what would be wrong with having but public schools and home schools. [17:45:55] I guess you don't remember school very well [17:46:03] Oh, I do. [17:46:30] what makes you think going to school makes kids "social" <--- Ummm... Classmates. [17:46:34] LoL [17:46:49] kids aren't told to socialize in class rooms [17:46:54] in fact quite the opposite [17:47:05] they're told not to socialize during class [17:47:10] so again [17:47:14] Just like work, I think there should be shorter school hours too but too eliminate schools entirely sounds extreme. [17:47:21] where do you get this idea that going to school makes kids "social" [17:47:31] or that not going to school makes kids "anti socal" [17:47:34] social [17:47:47] where do you get this idea that going to school makes kids "social" <--- Interaction with classmates, teachers, learning from both? [17:47:56] eliminating schools entirely is extreme [17:48:03] so is an amputation in the face of gas gangrene [17:49:11] you call the interaction between teachers and students "social"? [17:49:26] you really do have a warped view of things [17:49:38] *** Quits: Absalom (Absalom@RBOSE-96a728da.lavasoft.com) (Quit: Leaving) [17:50:11] it's indoctrination, not socialization [17:50:49] I don't know... Some kids that are really smarter usually move up a grade or put in smarter classes. [17:51:03] If schools didn't do that, you would have an argument there. [17:51:25] you're talking about different tiers of instruction based on performance [17:51:36] how can you possibly make the case that's a good thng [17:51:37] Students can excel, it depends on rather the students chooses to the see the pros more or the cons more. [17:51:38] thing [17:51:45] you know what [17:51:48] go hang yourself [17:52:09] how can you possibly make the case that's a good thng <--- It's a good thing because those who excel aren't held back from their true potential. [17:52:23] go hang yourself <--- Wowzers [17:52:46] you're a lost cause as far as I can tell [17:52:50] you're wasting my oxygen [17:53:52] *** Joins: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-343aa72f.epm.net.co) [17:53:57] Ah, an argument about schools! [17:54:21] LoL [17:54:27] Having been home schooled and been to school, home schooling can easily cause you more social issues. [17:54:42] Really? [17:54:46] I think schools could be improved if we went back to blackboards and chalk.. [17:54:56] So much is wasted on new tech, rather than spending it on actual teaching. [17:54:57] No... [17:55:25] I don't Nanos, I think the new technology is an incentive to make students want to learn more. [17:55:28] Having been to college not so long ago, I was shocked at how dumbed down everything has become. [17:55:35] Like calculators.. [17:55:45] No one can hardly do maths in their heads anymore. [17:56:01] As a consquence, people make the most simplist of mistakes because they fail to grasp even the basic concepts. [17:56:11] Really? I remember working math problems out from hand all the time. [17:56:20] Your probably rare :-) [17:56:22] can you send me a similar picture http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DiSRh2_ry2M/TDS7f5sLWSI/AAAAAAAAAno/CTYUkggMsj8/s1600/Capitalism_Socialism_Libertarianism_Anarchy_and_Fascisme__4.jpg [17:56:23] And I would have TEXAS instruments to do it too. [17:56:23] Julius' URL: http://xrl.us/bhxdw7 [17:56:42] Nanos, don't blame your social retardation on home schooling. Your parents raised you, you would have been just as socially inept and bungling had you gone to a public school. [17:56:43] Your probably rare :-) <--- I may be. [17:56:51] I remember once doing my girlfriends homework and her getting it wrong, I sent her back and told her that it was the teachers calculator that was wrong.. [17:56:57] Only if you'd gone to public school you also would have gotten your ass kicked routinely by other children. [17:57:15] I'm aware of other home schooled kids, it is quite a common thing for home schooled = lack of social skills. [17:57:23] Wow Julius. [17:57:24] LoL [17:57:28] You seem the same issue with single gender schools = lack of social skills with the oppersite sex. [17:57:31] There's no reason not to have calculators do math. [17:57:48] calculators are fine, as long as you teach how to do it by hand as well. [17:57:50] BranManFloMizzle: I remember Lukas or someone lese had nice diagram [17:58:00] There's no reason to teach people how to do math "by hand". [17:58:09] But nowdays, they skip more and more the doing it by hand and just teach how to use the machine. [17:58:09] including all social forms [17:58:37] The human mind struggles with all mathematical concepts. [17:58:47] I'm reminded of watching my university educated girlfriend try and work out her shopping bill as we shop, without a calculator.. [17:58:54] calculators are fine, as long as you teach how to do it by hand as well. <--- I agree, and once you get your syllabus in school, you were taught how to use it in the first week at least. [17:59:04] Maybe my college experience is different from yours. [17:59:06] For sure. [17:59:26] Here teaching is poor often. [17:59:30] The only thing that sucked was buying the expensive motherfuckers. [17:59:35] Why teach children to try and compete with machines that are millons of times faster. [17:59:47] Its about understanding, not speed. [17:59:55] I agree with Nanos. [17:59:57] People don't need to understand logarithms. [18:00:47] Its like people will blindly follow what the answer is, without knowing if its near enough right or not in their heads. (an example of that is a question about the size of a hole to drill, now if you make it too small, you can always make it bigger, but if you make it too big, you can't really put the material back..) [18:01:07] They know it's exactly right, not "near enough", if they use a calculator. [18:01:08] Many people now being schooled end up unable to figure out if the hole they are about to make might be too big or too small.. [18:01:20] Tell me exactly what people need math for on a daily basis. [18:01:27] shopping, budgeting.. [18:01:32] Right. [18:01:36] in other words tracking money [18:01:38] even so [18:01:44] what math do they need beyond simple counting [18:01:59] you don't have to "add" up the prices of your items to get a total bill [18:02:02] you can fucking count the shit [18:02:07] It would be nice if they taught simple counting :-) [18:02:12] four dollars, one two three four [18:02:22] three more dollars, five six seven [18:02:39] Measuring furniture too, windows, math is used for other things too besides money. [18:02:47] Working out if buying 3 for the price of 2 is cheaper than buying that other brand over there that is larger. [18:02:49] yeah sure people measure furniture every day don't they [18:02:51] WRONG [18:03:00] again back to money [18:03:00] Indeed, its quite amusing to watch people buy stuff and find out it doesn't fit in their car :-) [18:03:08] superfluous bullshit [18:03:21] most people have absolutely no use for math beyond counting money [18:03:35] Depends if they have someone else to do all the maths stuff for them. [18:03:47] Its quite expensive to employ someone to lay your carpet for example. [18:03:52] anyone who has a need can get a book that will fit in their palm that encapsulates everything taught in school [18:03:52] Math is used for games too Grits. [18:03:53] Poor people cannot afford that. [18:03:57] Again, not all about money. [18:04:05] math for recreation [18:04:11] again, something people will teach themselves [18:04:23] Most people are not very good at teaching themselves, they are lazy. [18:04:31] there is no convincing argument for putting thirty kids in a room and making them recite multiplication tables [18:04:40] it's just indoctrination [18:04:44] sit down [18:04:44] It sure helps to know your tables off by heart.. [18:04:45] shut up [18:04:48] do as you're told [18:04:51] count the money [18:04:58] I calculate how many KM i can drive on a litre [18:05:02] Your confusing the need to learn useful things with indoctrination.. [18:05:13] yeah you could calculate your gas mileage [18:05:14] I calculate how many KM i can drive on a litre <--- Another good example. [18:05:17] Kids like small animals need to be forced ot learn some things, like reading and writing. [18:05:21] or you could simply look it up [18:05:26] since the manufacturer already knows t [18:05:29] it [18:05:35] AFter that, its up to them what they do with those skills in my book. [18:05:43] http://www.thebest404pageever.com/swf/house_boombox.swf [18:05:44] No it depends on HOW i drive [18:05:52] Often you have to work out fuel effiency yourself, as manufactors stats often are a bit out. [18:06:03] and why do you care anyway [18:06:07] because fuel costs you money [18:06:09] cost of fuel :-) [18:06:11] so again we're back to money [18:06:15] superfluous bullshit [18:06:23] What about fitting furniture.. [18:06:27] what the fuck were any of you people doing in the zeitgeist movement in the first place [18:06:27] So i know how far i can go before i need to tank :D [18:06:31] I can see why you all got thrown out [18:06:32] Computer is not always right [18:06:38] och, vehicle discussions! I'm IN! [18:06:39] Indeed Viper. [18:06:40] hehe [18:06:50] Indeed Grits :-) [18:06:57] We are far too practical.. [18:07:18] I've been researching hardware options when building or converting to a electric engine/car [18:07:20] what the fuck were any of you people doing in the zeitgeist movement in the first place <--- LoL1 [18:07:35] WORD [18:08:00] *** Joins: redgi (6670@A96332.4756B2.77A8E3.BEDD37) [18:08:04] I'm familiar with the reasons cited for why a few of you have been tossed [18:08:05] i wonder myself... but then again, i havn't applied social science before it eiher. [18:08:15] Now, I do think Grits has some points about kids spending too much time in school. [18:08:25] basically it boils down to complaining that money can't be done away with, that it's somehow necessary [18:08:39] Right, I suggested to Grits that hours should be shortened like people working. [18:08:40] so you were tossed out because you disagreed with the principles of the movement [18:08:44] Sadly yes, the more i look into money, the more I see its necessary, as much as I would love to do away with it. [18:08:44] Nanos: or rather that the school it too detatched from reality... imo. [18:08:52] *** Joins: DerAKTIVist (DerAKTIVist-Z@RBOSE-13c20df8.adsl.alicedsl.de) [18:08:58] i was in TZM because i found the movies interesting, and found some interesting folks to talk to there :) [18:08:58] That too Calyp [18:09:16] Well, depends on what you think the principles are, I thought they was the scientific process and that was it.. [18:09:20] IO hear we have a traitor in our midsts... *booooh*booooh* [18:09:24] xD [18:09:26] jk [18:09:29] but i don't give much for the standard "groupthinking" in general :) [18:09:49] http://www.thebest404pageever.com/swf/house_boombox.swf <--- LoL [18:09:51] Sounds a good idea to shorten the hours at school. [18:09:57] especially from groups trying to get rid of it xD [18:10:11] * kalken head is spinning [18:10:12] yeah shorten hours in school to zero [18:10:16] BranManFloMizzle: yeah, and i'm a fan of House actually xD [18:10:17] We do teach kids in my view a lot of stuff they dont'; necessarly use later on. [18:10:17] Sounds a good idea to shorten the hours at school. <--- Yeah, all days would like be wednesdays. [18:10:25] let children use that time learning something useful [18:10:35] like table dancing or oral sex [18:10:35] BranManFloMizzle: yeah, and i'm a fan of House actually xD <--- Me too. [18:10:37] But at the same time, we don't teach our kids lots of useful things, like house hold budgeting for example. [18:10:49] School should just be a prat of everyday life, learning out of curiosity or necessity [18:10:49] Grits: open source school and education would be a pretty awesome step towards educating the public :) [18:10:59] internetz ftw [18:11:18] If you look at the difference between private schooled and state schooled kids, your see that education is a very useful thing. [18:11:21] School study it WRONG way. [18:11:26] I've been to both and seen the difference. [18:11:43] kalken: well, i'd say that stuff like TED and Khan Academy, we're uite far ahead allready. [18:11:49] One values ability, the other hates it.. [18:12:07] Nanos: maybe we're not talking about "education", but the fact that most people are forced into learning things they dont want, on places they dont want to go to :) [18:12:09] One makes learning fun, the other doesn't. [18:12:24] I think people need to be forced to learn the fundementals, or else they don't learn them. [18:12:33] But after that, they should be more free to choose what they want. [18:12:52] nah, thats not true :) [18:13:03] eg. you might force kids up to the age of say 10 to learn the basics, and then let them choose schooling options. [18:13:12] There is no essential difference in this country between public and private schools [18:13:15] But after that, they should be more free to choose what they want. <-- When they get older sure, when I was in high school, I could go to my guidance counselor and tell her which electives I wanted to switch too. [18:13:20] except that private schools can teach religion [18:13:24] that's it [18:13:31] for me the learning process started the day i understood that it was up to me if i learned something, not some teacher standing and forcing me to learn stuff [18:13:35] the government exerts control over private schools as much as public schools [18:13:39] Then why the difference between private schooled kids and state schooled ? where state schooled ones choose to go to school or not and generally often don't, or don't want to learn much when there, they are not forced like they are in private schools. [18:13:55] As such, you get a lot of state schooled kids unable to do much in the real world, like even read or write! [18:14:11] Most people have no need to read or write. [18:14:16] There is a huge difference in private to state schools, the goverment has little effect in my view there. [18:14:31] Grits: it helps when being on the internet though :) [18:14:34] Hard to fill in forms without being able to read or write, or access computer screens.. [18:14:42] Your "view" is irrelevant, Nanos. [18:14:51] As such, you get a lot of state schooled kids unable to do much in the real world, like even read or write! <--- Well there were classes in the high school I went to that taught you how to fill in applications and prepare for getting a job. [18:14:54] My view is as relevent as yours Grits.. [18:15:01] More classes like that should be in schools. [18:15:03] kalken, most people do NOT use the internet. [18:15:06] Agreed Bran. [18:15:14] Most people cannot touch type either.. [18:15:15] Exactly, Nanos, all views are equally irrelevant. [18:15:22] relevent.. [18:15:26] Grits: ofc, and personally i see that as a big problem that needs to be solved :) [18:15:30] Views are information, not just views. [18:15:46] after all information is the key to learn stuff fast [18:15:47] Views are often based on experience, a valulable resource. [18:15:48] hard to fill in forms [18:15:49] hahaha [18:15:50] i'd say get rid of schools alltogether, let people grow up in an environment that drives you to learn for real, learning connected to real practices of the theories. [18:15:51] you stupid fuck [18:16:13] I say we need more schools, because to get rid of them, would leave us with even more idiots than we have now. [18:16:13] well, thank ouy [18:16:21] It would be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. [18:16:28] Nanos, you are a textbook example of an old dog who can not be taught new tricks. [18:16:29] not how i meant. [18:16:37] Go lay under a porch and lick your nuts until you de. [18:16:39] die [18:16:39] schools are BAd but much better then NO SCHOOL. [18:16:44] You are perhaps an example of a failed schooling.. [18:16:45] it's gonna be a gradual transition ofc. [18:16:51] Agreed Viper. [18:16:55] I'm entirely self-taught. [18:16:57] We need to improve schools. [18:17:07] I never learned anything of value in schools that I had not already taught myself [18:17:10] Not everyone wants to be self taught. [18:17:15] my IQ approaches 200 [18:17:20] I can believe that. [18:17:23] Wowzers [18:17:31] I could read a newspaper at age 3 [18:17:39] Your not stupid as such, but not always knowledgable as you think you are. [18:17:46] And your social skills suck of course :-) [18:17:53] speak for yourself [18:17:56] But we wouldn't be without you, as you do have lots of wisdom. [18:17:57] Grits: if its so, you probably understand that "fuck you" does not lead to a creative discussion :) [18:18:02] my old lady loves the way I "socialize" with her [18:18:29] is there any point entering a creative discussion with a snail or a mushroom? [18:18:30] Tahts one of the faults of TZM, not spotting that people who are sometimes a PITA are also useful and knowledgable. [18:18:36] kalken got point :) [18:18:56] Sometimes I'm just as a PITA as Grits. [18:19:08] Sometimes I'm wrong, just as sometimes Grits is wrong.. [18:19:15] Grits: guess thats also up to the individual entering to decide :) [18:19:17] But we can at least communicate here. [18:19:18] Nanos: well, we might perhaps teach people to teach themself. But build a support structure for guidance and a graphic overview of the importance of subjects etc. [18:19:27] I'tl be like leveling a game in the end. [18:19:47] Its a nice idea to let people teach themselves, but for the general population, I've noticed if you don't force them to learn, they stay undomesticated ferel animals. [18:19:56] I am very rarely wrong, and almost always when I am wrong, I discover it before anyone else does. [18:20:21] and when the rare opportunity comes along for others to prove I was wrong, I love it [18:20:27] Likewise. [18:20:31] because it's a chance to prove to people I can learn [18:20:35] by admitting I made a mistake [18:20:38] I think much of leraning is aquired better to some extent if real professionals teach kids via a movie-screen, than would they live with a half decent teacher. [18:20:43] it's just that such a circumstance almost never happens [18:20:53] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net) [18:21:12] Grits: lucky you. I'm always wrong because my mind is always compacting things down to the level it can understand. So i never seem to get the "full" picture [18:21:14] I would tend towards real teachers and real kids as the better option than just movie screens. [18:21:35] Lots of hands on experience seems to work well in teaching stuff i notice. [18:21:43] The more book stuff, the more distance and the less seems to be picked up. [18:21:56] As such I would be for apprentiships early on in schooling. [18:21:56] Then get kids out of schools and put them in jobs. [18:22:02] Agreed Grits :-) [18:22:11] Like the Amish only teach to the age of what, 12 ? [18:22:14] *** Quits: redgi (6670@A96332.4756B2.77A8E3.BEDD37) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [18:22:35] Nanos: well, that would be becouse there is to distant monetary incentive to learn. If the incentive IS TO LEARN to aquire better individual performance, then tha bell will sound different... [18:23:37] Nowdays, kids don't finish schooling until after university, so at age 23/24 they come into the real world, missing lots of practical skills. I can remember my dad started work when he was like 8 [18:23:49] most ppl i met in college where there because they wanted to get a good job and get paid. Very few of them where actually interested in staying up late, learning more stuff around some subject [18:23:56] never understood that... [18:23:56] let children decide for themselves if they'd rather sit in a classroom five days a week or visit Antarctica to learn what it's like there [18:23:58] Indeed kalken [18:24:12] Trouble is, you need money to visit Antarctica.. [18:24:20] let them travel around learning as long as they want to learn [18:24:36] Most will then just be students their entire life and not work.. [18:24:38] and when they're sick of learning they can eat and fuck the rest of their lives [18:24:40] and play xbox [18:25:06] This is less of a problem these days as you need less people to do the work.. [18:25:14] education does not have to be boring :) [18:25:23] True kalken [18:25:38] Though, I've noticed the same subject in different schools taught both boring and not boring! [18:25:50] game development is an excellent way to learn for example linear algebra [18:25:53] As such, I loved private schooling for that, and hated state schooling. [18:25:59] Agreed. [18:26:23] so Nanos has been home schooled, and gone to private school, and gone to public school [18:26:25] There was also a different attitude among the kids in state schools on the whole, they hated excellence, whilst in private schooling, they admired it. [18:26:30] that's quite an imaginative history there [18:26:34] Yes, I've done lots, hence why I can talk about lots :-) [18:26:37] Its all true.. [18:26:44] Annoying isn't it :-) [18:26:45] of course it is [18:26:54] I'd never doubt any of your outlandish stories [18:27:04] The same we should never doubt yours.. [18:27:20] I actually like it when people don't believe my life [18:27:22] I can prove every word of everything I say, else I wouldn't say it. [18:27:39] it suggests to me my life has been pretty amazing [18:27:54] And we do need to learn from your life experiences. [18:28:07] I don't think that's possible [18:28:19] I can but hope that you can tell us things that we didn't know. [18:28:21] you should stick to your own experieces, I don't think you could handle mine [18:28:31] You don't know my experiences all together.. [18:28:38] I could tell you things you don't know [18:28:53] but when you still don't know them after I've told you [18:28:59] it's annoying and makes me want to strangle you [18:29:03] I take them into account though. [18:29:21] I might disagree, but lets say a few more people say the same thing, I then begin to wonder if I'm wrong. [18:29:35] that's comforting [18:29:39] And listening to you repeatedly, I sometimes pick up new information. [18:29:47] How about this one then: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9fa20bdca7e99098a8192d5e11966d46&prevstart=0 [18:29:48] URL Title: GYRO, new green house concept. by Pierrearchi - Google 3D Warehouse (at sketchup.google.com) [18:30:02] Its how I always learn about things I don't have direct experience with, trying to figure out whose right and whose wrong. [18:30:16] that's easy [18:30:33] Is that curved windows ? [18:30:38] I wonder what material, glass ? [18:30:38] always assume am always right more than I am wrong and you will always be more right than wrong [18:31:15] I think your right about some things at least. [18:31:26] and do somethng about my I key [18:31:28] Just how much, is unclear to me. [18:31:52] Your in the, more listened to catagory of people. [18:32:13] eg. I don't necessarly take your comments lightly, and do give them thought. [18:32:45] Nanos, "transparent plastic, film reinforced" [18:32:52] curved glass I hear is expensive, a hexagon shape would be better, than then you run into the issues of waterproofing the joining bits, as I hear that can be problematic with glass. [18:33:05] Lets hope you don't get many vandals with knives :-) [18:33:28] I wonder how long the plastic lasts ? (I've noticed plastic doesn't last long in the sun.) [18:33:49] check out this book. Its pretty cool stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel,_Escher,_Bach [18:33:49] I suppose if its cost is low enough, it doesn't matter. [18:33:53] URL Title: Gödel, Escher, Bach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) [18:33:54] all plastics photodegrade [18:33:59] Nanos, Its always an issue. [18:34:19] buy why waterproof a greenhouse [18:34:23] christ [18:34:35] Depends what its made of :-) water damage is a common issue with buildings. [18:34:37] More CNC sex: http://www.ekkoflex.com/ [18:34:38] URL Title: Concept (at www.ekkoflex.com) [18:34:44] That and letting in pests. [18:34:56] Grits: could be to keep the cold winter out maybe... [18:35:16] better have an airlock if you want to keep pests out [18:35:25] that little thing called a door you walk through to get into it [18:35:28] guess what [18:35:31] pests can get in there [18:35:43] Still, it doesn't help to have holes elsewhere unnecessarly. [18:35:53] who said anything about holes [18:35:56] you said waterproofing joints [18:36:08] same thing.. if water can get in, so generally can pests. [18:36:19] so can your mother [18:36:31] Always with the insults.. [18:36:39] Snappy comeback there, Grits. [18:36:49] I'll stick him on ignore for a while again. [18:36:50] are you going to seal it hermetcally and have a hepa filter to keep errant bacteria out of your greenhouse as well? [18:36:56] it's a fucking greenhouse not an operating room [18:37:04] lol [18:37:16] !hug all [18:37:18] * RBOSE expands his arms and hugs the whole #RBOSE. :D [18:37:24] Yay! <3 [18:37:27] Now isn't that better than banning everyone! [18:37:42] I think DNS should ban everyone [18:38:02] !kick kalken [18:38:02] Gotta love ignore. Nanos, How does that command work now again? /ignore nick ? [18:38:03] ACTION *ACCESS DENIED* (But maybe it works, if you try this trigger 4 times in a row.) [18:38:16] I'm not sure, I use the right click option here. [18:38:21] Oh. [18:38:31] So it might be client side only thingy. [18:38:40] people love ignore [18:38:47] Its a needed thing in my view, especially inforums. [18:38:49] so fond of willful ignorance [18:38:55] Its interesitng that the UK Z forums have it, but the US ones don't. [18:38:55] kalken, how to ignore? [18:39:01] But sadly, you cannot ignore mods.. [18:39:14] Which rather defeats the whole ignore tool! [18:39:17] "/ignore " [18:39:23] *** Joins: redgi (6670@A96332.8ED607.C22B29.5D45CA) [18:39:23] As the assholes just become mods to avoid being ignored.. [18:39:41] people cant handle being in a position to talk for anybody else [18:39:46] thats a true fact :) [18:40:15] Still, the ignore function is at least useful on the forums to some degree. (Though I got told off for mentioning who I was ignoring..) [18:40:17] just because we can never be objective, how much we even try [18:40:21] kalken, would you even go as far as making that an official statement? ^^ [18:40:30] ^^ [18:40:45] Whats the point of the ignore tool if people don't know they are being ignored.. [18:40:50] http://ircz.de/7150 [18:40:51] URL Title: Are you ready for this? (at ircz.de) [18:41:37] Nanos: the point i hope, is that people will stop fighting. Thats not by punishing either way :) [18:41:48] I imagine its not particlarly easy to clean the roof of that transparent greenhouse, not unless its angled, rather than flat. [18:42:15] http://ircz.de/18442 [18:42:16] URL Title: Are you ready for this? (at ircz.de) [18:42:16] xD [18:42:17] One of the ways ignore can work is if someone is being ignored it gives them the option to change their behaviour to one that is more acceptable. [18:42:23] i only use ignore when someone is flooding the whole channel so it messes up my reading [18:42:43] have never understood the point in being upset for what someone writes over the internet [18:42:55] Its an emotional thing. [18:42:55] Nanos, exactly. Its a way of saying "the way you are sharing information now is not compatible with how i want to receive it". [18:43:21] Not everyone can get on with everyone else, so its also a useful tool. [18:43:23] Nanos: ofc. But if someone's got a problem with me, its THEIR problem until i make it mine :) [18:43:55] Tools like that I notice make a big difference in online discussions to reduce hostilties. [18:44:04] Something TZM never seemed to get. [18:44:11] :) [18:44:12] Its either, behave 100% or be banned. [18:44:23] Most folk aren't necessarly going to manage the 100%.. [18:44:35] So you need some flexibility, and tools help to increase that. [18:44:44] yeah, more rules seldom lead to better behavior in the long run [18:44:49] not if people dont get them [18:44:50] Agreed. [18:44:58] I'm for least rules myself. [18:45:00] And most tools. [18:45:48] TZM in their effort to solve their problems went for more rules sadly. [18:45:57] Its a common thing I see in lots of places, but not all.. [18:46:13] There are places like this, been around for 20+ years, perfectly functional because of tools. [18:46:33] My hope is perhaps one day to offer that to TZM to use. [18:46:43] Then they might evolve out of the hole they have dug for themselves. [18:46:43] but TZM is not "they". Its a bunch of individuals with different thoughts. just like here [18:47:02] True, but there is more control there. [18:47:12] indeed [18:47:15] It means much of the valuable talk that could be spoken, gets thrown out. [18:47:17] thats the problem :) [18:47:33] Its like if I always ignored Grits, it would be my loss. [18:47:38] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (unclefester3@RBOSE-de985602.iburst.co.za) [18:47:41] communication skills goes both ways :) [18:48:01] There are very few people I put on permentant ignore. (HH being one of them..) [18:48:14] 66% downloaded sheesh [18:48:25] :) [18:48:30] * Nanos wonders what 6th is downloading.. [18:48:36] ubuntu :) [18:48:38] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere [18:48:39] URL Title: Noosphere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) [18:48:39] Ah [18:48:40] * Sixth_Ape is very patient [18:48:41] hmmm... [18:49:03] hello Calyp [18:49:05] That reminds me, I need to install something here today. [18:49:12] hi [18:49:15] I know TechPriest is trying to set up a meeting with the vice prez from Noosphere. [18:49:19] my seeds might have gotten lost in the post:( [18:49:21] I think maybe the 30th. [18:49:25] I have to check... [18:49:29] I will at least get new ones if they did:) [18:49:32] Venux talked about it last night. [18:49:42] mkay... [18:49:51] so what are those guys about then? [18:50:26] "One of the original aspects of the noosphere concept deals with evolution. Henri Bergson, with his L'évolution créatrice (1907), was one of the first to propose that evolution is 'creative' and cannot necessarily be explained solely by Darwinian natural selection." [18:50:37] well, sounds like jibberish to mee [18:51:28] first to??? never heard of creationism? lol [18:51:45] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@A96332.B79E18.B28DE2.106F99) [18:52:15] Calyp: maybe "one of the first million" :) [18:52:23] I think i'll go out in my workshop and just fiddle around a bot. [18:52:26] mmm maybe teilhard had some "lucy in the sky with diamonds" [18:52:29] kalken: right... [18:52:37] hehe [18:53:34] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Co6GAaXFw [18:53:35] :) [18:53:35] You4Tube 2[Title] hay baling fun 2[Category] Comedy 2[Duration] 0:00:52 2[Views] 307 2[Rating] 4.93 2[Uploaded] 2010-08-26 2[Description] This video has no description. [18:54:03] I suggest all politicians partake in this recreative mental enhancement activitiy [18:55:41] Calyp, how is the cleaning up going out there? [19:00:10] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (unclefester3@RBOSE-de985602.iburst.co.za) (Client closed the connection) [19:01:05] kman: well, i'm mainly sorting nuts and bolts and such still, but i think i will have somewhat better structure soon. Gonna get up on the attic and continue mounting floorboards, mainly so we get rid of all those car upholsteries that is laying around. [19:01:53] and i need to get some Amazon parts up there as well, so i get five more pallet frames for the greenhouse project. I have compost to store lying around waiting =P [19:01:57] *** Joins: mrandersson (mrandersson@RBOSE-bbc6a87a.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [19:02:18] kman: but i'm on my way out there right nos, so i'll chat later! [19:02:47] and kman, don't hesitate to call if you feel like planning etc. =P [19:03:11] But there's something wrong with my telephone at home now xD [19:03:20] so all we have is Carolinas cell =P [19:03:41] perhaps i should go get my spare, got a new SIM card the other day [19:03:51] oh, well, ta-da! [19:05:11] ^^ [19:05:25] Sound great. [19:06:03] *** kman is now known as kman-study [19:07:56] *** Quits: redgi (6670@A96332.8ED607.C22B29.5D45CA) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [20:11:21] *** Quits: Atomraider (Atomraider@RBOSE-6f29afa4.catv.broadband.hu) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [20:28:45] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@B46EE4.0DF7FB.5204EF.E98095) [20:28:56] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@RBOSE-27a126af.pool.digikabel.hu) [20:30:51] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@A96332.B79E18.B28DE2.106F99) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [20:31:07] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) [20:32:02] *** Quits: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [20:32:10] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-5aa36246.biz.rr.com) [20:34:16] *** Joins: Atomraider (Atomraider@RBOSE-6f29afa4.catv.broadband.hu) [20:38:21] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVMiWqdzgNo [20:38:22] You4Tube 2[Title] Downloading films is stealing 2[Category] Comedy 2[Duration] 0:00:40 2[Views] 156 2[Rating] None 2[Uploaded] 2009-05-23 2[Description] Downloading films is stealing - if you do it you *will* face the consequences (The IT Crowd) [20:40:55] walk to the dawn of the light [20:41:05] wind will blow in your face as the years go by [20:41:10] hear this voice from deep inside [20:41:13] it's the voice of your heart [20:41:17] close your eyes, and you will find [20:41:22] there's a knock on the wall [20:41:23] HERE I AM [20:41:27] WILL YOU SEND ME AN ANGEL [20:41:47] LoL [20:42:15] Viper: Bob Dylan wouldn' be Bob Dylan if no one bought his records [20:42:17] true story [20:42:37] Wow Viper. [20:42:39] Wowzers [20:49:09] http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/bossie-awards-2010-the-best-open-source-applications-150 [20:49:10] URL Title: Bossie Awards 2010: The best open source applications | Open Source - InfoWorld (at www.infoworld.com) [21:16:31] *** Quits: DerAKTIVist (DerAKTIVist-Z@RBOSE-13c20df8.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:18:12] *** Joins: hakufu_ (hakufu@RBOSE-7e2be303.bredband.comhem.se) [21:18:12] *** Quits: hakufu (hakufu@RBOSE-7e2be303.bredband.comhem.se) (Client closed the connection) [21:26:52] *** Joins: Diago_ (Diago@RBOSE-d174dd99.epm.net.co) [21:28:54] *** Quits: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-343aa72f.epm.net.co) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:32:18] *** Joins: Diago__ (Diago@RBOSE-3999c8c1.epm.net.co) [21:34:16] *** Quits: Diago_ (Diago@RBOSE-d174dd99.epm.net.co) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:36:20] *** Quits: Diago__ (Diago@RBOSE-3999c8c1.epm.net.co) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:37:34] *** Joins: Diago__ (Diago@RBOSE-cdd2e117.epm.net.co) [21:40:58] *** Joins: redgi (6670@A96332.E03352.8D6F44.281274) [21:59:55] *** Quits: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-f6e501eb.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving) [22:03:15] * Viper is listening to Voices Of Spring 2007 (Sunrise) by GT vs Project C [Amarok2] [22:03:43] *** Quits: redgi (6670@A96332.E03352.8D6F44.281274) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:05:19] *** Quits: Diago__ (Diago@RBOSE-cdd2e117.epm.net.co) (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~) [22:11:08] *** Joins: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-cdd2e117.epm.net.co) [22:15:19] *** Quits: Cyclo (Cyclo@B46EE4.0DF7FB.5204EF.E98095) (Connection closed) [22:17:08] *** Quits: kman-study (kman@RBOSE-28808f64.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:19:54] *** Joins: redgi (6670@A96332.8ED607.5CD6CE.9E4DB2) [22:21:18] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [22:21:53] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@RBOSE-27a126af.pool.digikabel.hu) [22:24:19] *** Joins: redgi2 (6670@A96332.4756B2.B897D1.A8238F) [22:25:51] *** Quits: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-cdd2e117.epm.net.co) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:25:59] *** Quits: redgi (6670@A96332.8ED607.5CD6CE.9E4DB2) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:29:47] *** Joins: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-a6184b3a.epm.net.co) [22:36:04] *** Joins: DerAKTIVist (DerAKTIVist-Z@RBOSE-de6acb6f.adsl.alicedsl.de) [22:52:00] *** Quits: Diago (Diago@RBOSE-a6184b3a.epm.net.co) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:53:15] *** Joins: Diago (Diago@B38B54.5998A2.B828BE.DD1CEF) [22:54:59] *** Quits: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:57:46] *** Quits: redgi2 (6670@A96332.4756B2.B897D1.A8238F) (Client closed the connection) [22:59:01] *** Joins: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) [22:59:12] what's up [23:00:51] *** Quits: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) (Quit: Page closed) [23:02:29] *** Joins: Grits (qwebirc@RBOSE-d6e9fa8f.shawneelink.net) [23:02:35] What's up? [23:02:51] stuff [23:02:59] True that. [23:03:13] yeh [23:04:17] it's cold [23:04:22] need coffee [23:04:26] head hurts [23:04:33] Ouch [23:04:35] might take day off [23:04:47] Word. [23:05:19] Sentence [23:05:30] Letter. [23:05:33] haha [23:05:38] Oh yeah. [23:05:52] exclamation mark [23:06:02] period [23:06:14] haha [23:06:21] check this out bran [23:06:25] http://www.facebook.com/breakfastnews?ref=ts#!/NSACareers [23:06:27] URL Title: ABC News Breakfast | Facebook (at www.facebook.com) [23:07:14] i'm trying to win the Troll award at the RBOSE awards night [23:07:31] LoL [23:07:46] :D [23:07:48] You're trying to get a job here NeoCorTex/ [23:07:50] ? [23:07:54] ha [23:08:00] facebook is a game [23:08:17] It's fun though. [23:08:26] it's fun if you're a troll [23:09:14] Then I guess you're really having fun. [23:09:30] lol ... but they always ignore me [23:10:39] LoL @ Audio Testimonials [23:11:19] I think we should create some RBOSE Testimonials. [23:11:48] haha [23:12:01] "Hi, my name is Brandon and I'm still healing after leaving the Zeitgeist Movement" - BranMan [23:12:07] LoL [23:12:08] haha [23:12:10] rofl [23:13:03] *** Joins: Diogenes (qwebirc@RBOSE-7d9f684b.ph.cox.net) [23:13:18] "I always knew there were real people ... but never managed to find them ... until I joined RBOSE" [23:13:29] Nice [23:13:30] LoL [23:13:32] ha [23:14:24] "I like being in RBOSE because I don't have to pretend to be a doctor to get attention" - BranMan [23:14:35] haha [23:15:57] demands are a integral part of violent communication [23:16:06] lol [23:16:06] when somebody from ZM tells you to join the movement... [23:16:10] is that not one? [23:16:14] it is [23:16:23] you're right Diogenes [23:16:28] *** DNS is now known as DR [23:16:29] it is a larger pattern [23:16:34] communists are like that too [23:16:35] * DR *harrumph [23:16:38] lol [23:16:43] im a doctor [23:16:45] centralists [23:16:46] haha [23:16:46] lol [23:16:47] Oh No You Didn't! [23:16:48] LoL [23:16:52] people who seek to use hiearchy [23:16:54] jk [23:16:56] yes [23:17:06] *shower time* [23:17:08] and autority to make the outcomes their limited worldview percieves [23:17:12] brrrrrrrrr [23:17:18] * Diogenes eats raw kale [23:17:58] *** DR is now known as DNS [23:18:29] the more time goes by the more irrelivant those in that movement become [23:18:40] and the more fustrated and more repetitious too [23:22:33] *** Quits: hakufu_ (hakufu@RBOSE-7e2be303.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving) [23:27:40] *** Joins: SCI (qwebirc@RBOSE-94aeb33c.res.rr.com) [23:28:48] totally [23:30:19] even on just the interpersonal level [23:30:34] the majority i would fair to say do not have the skills to create resolution [23:30:48] 1 on 1 [23:31:46] especialy between women and men [23:32:00] so true [23:32:14] for a duration of ~ length of time [23:32:23] sad [23:32:29] so this girl wants the car out of the shop [23:32:29] why? [23:32:50] *** Joins: Cloneraider (qwebirc@RBOSE-6f29afa4.catv.broadband.hu) [23:32:57] i payed for the car she broke the engine . hit a log, i eventualy now have it almost fixed. she wants it iminatatly [23:33:01] entitlement [23:33:10] its another thing we are fighting for i suppose [23:33:30] to enable that individual entitlement and autonomy , [23:33:50] but the scarcity based system we are enslaved under just doesnt allow it [23:33:58] yes [23:34:03] so the conflicts petty will continue as a consequence [23:35:12] yes [23:36:15] *** Quits: Cloneraider (qwebirc@RBOSE-6f29afa4.catv.broadband.hu) (Quit: Page closed) [23:38:59] dear lord...the Indian city of Hyderabad is flooded too now [23:39:18] i have heaps of friends there [23:39:59] :'( [23:40:22] where can we see the real picture of the flooding for the whole region [23:40:50] there's a story on http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/ [23:40:53] URL Title: ABC News - ABC News 24 (at www.abc.net.au) [23:41:02] but i don't know if you can recieve that stream [23:41:30] they're talking about the pakistan floods now [23:42:00] what's happening [23:42:11] is all this stuff normal [23:42:13] is there a map of where the rain has been ? [23:42:23] hmm... [23:42:26] nothing is normal [23:42:31] i only saw shots from the air [23:42:31] nothing is nothing [23:42:33] u c [23:42:36] lol [23:42:52] its all a matter of perception and how it affects your sences based on stored memories [23:42:59] yes [23:43:15] of course having facts to reference helps peeps verifiy [23:43:20] i got some great new music [23:43:26] :| [23:43:37] did i post the multishare links? [23:43:49] !l [23:44:14] your friend's band? [23:47:45] one [23:48:21] http://www.multiupload.com/BFM8DZYJZ7 [23:48:22] URL Title: Multiupload.com - upload your files to multiple file hosting sites! (at www.multiupload.com) [23:48:34] Treasure Mammal - Last of the Brohicans - 2010 [23:48:50] http://www.multiupload.com/526WDAXXPM [23:48:51] URL Title: Multiupload.com - upload your files to multiple file hosting sites! (at www.multiupload.com) [23:48:56] this is more what im talking about thou [23:49:13] or [23:49:13] http://www.multiupload.com/5F0ZKWNNMO [23:49:14] URL Title: Multiupload.com - upload your files to multiple file hosting sites! (at www.multiupload.com) [23:49:53] :( [23:49:54] *** Quits: Diago (Diago@B38B54.5998A2.B828BE.DD1CEF) (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~) [23:49:57] *** Joins: SCI_ (qwebirc@RBOSE-94aeb33c.res.rr.com) [23:49:57] it's so complicated [23:50:04] that web site [23:50:29] it's like 20 clicks ... have to read tonnes of stuff ... windows opening all over the place [23:50:41] then you have to think about which option to chose [23:50:58] and finally ... you have to wait 60 seconds watching a dumb page [23:51:11] I refuse to use rapid share ever again [23:51:15] *** Quits: SCI (qwebirc@RBOSE-94aeb33c.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [23:57:53] i never use rapidshare [23:58:01] but i get files from it [23:58:05] just use a plugin for firefox [23:58:08] to get it for you [23:58:13] it does all the waiting and clicking [23:58:19] i use Cryptload [23:58:27] it does every free share stie auto downloading [23:59:14] eachone is a different kind rapidshare is the easiest [23:59:18] and most scriptable