[00:07:03] *** Joins: IceCat (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [00:07:03] *** Quits: IceCat (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (OperServ (Session limit exceeded)) [00:07:19] *** Joins: IceCat (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [00:07:19] *** Quits: IceCat (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (OperServ (Session limit exceeded)) [00:07:39] *** Quits: atlas99 (atlas@RBOSE-bvk.9ci.224.193.IP) (Connection closed) [00:09:58] has anyone here seen the new Z:MF? ;) [00:10:28] *** Joins: IceCat (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [00:10:28] *** Quits: IceCat (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (OperServ (Session limit exceeded)) [00:10:35] *** Quits: Carbon (Carbon@RBOSE-rmh6cm.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Kane fucked something up. 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[00:41:30] *** Joins: Viper (Viper@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [00:41:51] *** Quits: Viper (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) (Connection closed) [00:42:17] *** Quits: Phantom (Viper@RBOSE-51bh0u.static.versatel.nl) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [00:42:25] *** Out`Of`Control is now known as Viper [00:52:24] Back! [00:52:34] *** Quits: Dfjpw (Dfjpw@RBOSE-k26gte.business.telia.com) (Client exited) [00:54:13] Great! ;) [00:56:26] Kubu, are you one of zbelievers and jfanatics? [00:57:13] lukas: haha, you apparently do not remeber me from TZM forums :D [00:57:14] *** Kubu was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "tzm" on this channel.) [00:57:41] hehe [00:57:59] *** Joins: Kubu (quassel@RBOSE-992up3.95-102-176.t-com.sk) [00:58:16] lukas: eh? I did not se that coming ... [00:58:21] :x [00:58:25] it was not lukas [00:58:31] the evil bots [00:58:31] i get kicked too if i say that [00:58:47] \o/ [00:58:53] Viper: http://gorinevelde.hu/tmp/barrelponics_manual.pdf [00:59:07] Viper: what in the world? [00:59:26] thanks Julius [00:59:35] *** Quits: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [00:59:50] Viper: is everyone barred from even mentioning t_z_m here? :S [01:00:03] only kicked not banned [01:00:17] Kubu, we are just very tired of that crap [01:00:23] I said barred, as not allowed [01:00:44] lukas: I can understand that but this is the way to deal with it? [01:00:59] lukas: this is the kind of crap I left t_z_m for [01:01:10] you can talk about that somewhere else, we had here a lot of that talk and nothin productive came out since that [01:01:14] nearly a year [01:01:47] Kubu, it's just an experiment, and I wonder do you want to work on anything specific, or just talk about that crap? [01:02:03] I am working on something specific [01:02:07] cool [01:02:15] i hope its not movie lol [01:02:17] I've a lot finished already [01:02:45] but I do not see the point in talking about it until it's ready for public release [01:02:53] o_0 [01:03:17] I've got into that trap of just talking myself ... I realized you need to just do it if you want to move forward (pun intended) ;) [01:03:23] kubu u plan to release your work on a proprietary license? [01:03:38] i just wonder [01:03:48] DNS: no, I'm a big free software advocate [01:03:54] nice :) [01:04:01] Kubu :D [01:04:17] Kubu, are you one of zbelievers and jfanatics? -- i just wonder should i waste any minute or maybe you are one of the smart enough to think for yourself? [01:04:23] I would actually be capable of criticizing you for using open-source label ... but I know you mean well ;) [01:04:31] Kubu we can talk in mumble too [01:04:46] sure kubu we know [01:04:58] we know that Kubu very well :) [01:05:01] open source have evil sides [01:05:01] the problem is that free hardware is hard to understand for the most ppl [01:05:15] open source hardware a bit better, as an example [01:05:23] but best term is copyleft hardware [01:05:25] :p [01:05:31] for me [01:05:48] Kubu, http://rbose.org/images/proprietary-opensource-free.png [01:06:07] I like the libre label [01:06:16] *** Quits: Grits (Hominy@RBOSE-dkvesl.shawneelink.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [01:06:21] libre sounds nice too, i agree :) [01:06:28] it has the freedom in it while not implying that it's "for free" [01:06:36] *** Joins: Grits (Hominy@RBOSE-dkvesl.shawneelink.net) [01:07:21] I like that for free part too, because no one is discrimated on monetary basis :) [01:07:55] lukas: great ;) [01:07:58] i think we need a freedom trigger [01:08:14] ?? freedome [01:08:15] freedome[x]: No defintion found for word. [01:08:23] :D [01:08:27] !windows [01:08:27] I'm happy to run not such as crappy operating system & i like to run on Debian GNU/Linux. Check: http://rbose.org/wiki/Debian [01:08:39] lukas: the for free part is a prerequisite for the libre part ... libre > just free [01:09:32] there is a problem with some polticial fractions understanding that differenlty, but you know that too probably [01:09:48] lukas: yeah ... I think we understand each other :) [01:09:55] :)))) [01:10:00] yea the word "free" is misused a lot [01:10:04] it's nice to be in a company where people understand the issues ;) [01:10:20] *** Joins: anne (anne@RBOSE-rpnuup.adsl.tpnet.pl) [01:10:28] Hi Anne :) [01:10:48] Hi Viper! Hi guys! [01:10:54] !dance anne [01:10:55] ACTION starts a slowdance and grabs the ass of anne in #RBOSE [01:10:56] I had a long discussion with guys behind Humble Indie Bundle about this ... have you heard about them? [01:10:57] hi [01:10:59] lol [01:11:01] lol [01:11:19] lol [01:11:21] no [01:11:42] http://www.humblebundle.com/ [01:12:10] they've raised $1.8 million form voluntary donations for games ... that's quite a feat ;) [01:12:42] 0_o [01:12:43] first time they've raised $1.3 million so it's not a fluke :D [01:13:58] they could not understand for the world how people can complain about them talking about "open-sourcing" a game and keeping the art assets under proprietary license [01:15:17] <_DNS> its nice that they push freee software [01:15:22] <_DNS> but money just suxxx [01:15:36] *** Joins: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [01:15:36] *** RBOSE sets mode: +v rBOTse [01:15:45] it's not free software when the assets are proprietary, that's the issue [01:16:01] <_DNS> oh [01:16:06] <_DNS> even more worse [01:16:25] they actually were just "going with the trend" while not understanding the issues involved deeply enough ... that's why I contacted them :) [01:17:10] _DNS: I actually do not think money sux [01:18:14] money is the true direct democracy ... your dollar bills are voting ballots :D [01:18:40] too few people realize that though ... that's the real problem [01:19:07] *** Joins: wikibot (wikibot@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [01:19:07] *** Parts: wikibot (wiki-bot@wiki.rbose.org) [01:21:57] well ... it would be a true direct democracy if there weren't entities printing as much as they want at will and extorting those voting ballots by force from people [01:22:43] if printing is not allowed then you advocate scarcity of it? [01:23:10] sure, that's the critical propery of money [01:23:35] you can not print money at will ... they would seize to be money :) [01:24:03] scarcity is desired property of money [01:24:29] yea money would be true democraacy if we all were allowed to print it [01:24:33] :P [01:24:37] as long as *nobody* has a priviledge to get around it ... that's the problem [01:24:38] why you simply cannot do something for othere people because you want and not have a social drama each time when someone manipulates the virtual points? do you need the belive points in game to be directly invovled? [01:25:05] lukas: but nobody prevents you from doing something for people just because you want [01:25:19] you can do as you please [01:25:27] *** DNS is now known as DNS777 [01:25:31] there is no law to require you to demand money for your services [01:25:31] *** _DNS is now known as DNS [01:26:15] it's a competition od ideas ... [01:26:41] you can not prevent somebody to demand compensation for his work by force just like you can not force it the other way around [01:26:42] it's illegal in many countries to do something for others without tax, even a gift has to be in those countries under tax [01:27:31] lukas: tax applies only to money/wealth transfers ... it does not prevent you from doing something for free [01:28:04] lukas: but govs are corrupt ... I'm not talking about laws, I'm talking about *money* as a concept [01:28:22] hmmmm [01:28:36] govs can pass a lot of nonsensical laws, that is irrelevant to moeny as a concept [01:28:41] i think money makes ppl corrupt [01:28:58] or "helps" a lot to make ppl corrupt [01:29:02] DNS777: no, not money ... desire for power does [01:29:30] DNS777: money is just a reflection of that desire [01:29:51] money is basically an illusion [01:30:01] we have to trust the "value" [01:30:12] DNS777: sure, just like math ... doesn't mean it's not an useful illusion ;) [01:30:52] DNS777: you don't have to ... you don;t have to anything ;) [01:31:29] DNS777: I do not trust the value of our current fiat currencies for example [01:31:45] me neither [01:32:06] that doesn't mean I'm going to shun money as a concept though [01:32:27] Kubu, and you see no problem with hoarding? [01:32:31] if implemented right, money is very useful [01:33:10] lukas: well, what do you mean by that? you can hoard anything ... even without money, money is just reflection of it again, not the cause [01:34:02] if there wasn't for money, you can hoard silver and prevent a lot of technology being made ... [01:34:18] if there wasn't silver you can hoard food ... [01:34:36] if there wasn't food you can hoard water ... you get the drift :) [01:35:21] yes, i'm speaking about hoarding in general, heaving money, resources and control/power in mind, and money are just virtual points to achieve it, money are not the fundamental problem, extensive hoarding is much closer [01:35:39] lukas: yeah ... then I agree [01:36:21] lukas: the problem with preventing hoarding is then that you need some 'authority' to do it which tends to go corrupt because of the power it has over people [01:37:10] taht is a difficult problem to solve [01:38:00] so why you need that believe in your life? wonna continue with church of money? what it believers will say, "hmm this is so unreal, why i need to deal with it?" i know some guys who have a mentality of game players, and that works for them, at least until there is electricity ;) [01:38:03] either you get tyranny of hoarders or the tyranny of 'regulators' (which tend to e the same people in the end) [01:39:29] as I said, moeny is useful as an exchange medium ... otherwise you have no way to keep track of who actually contributes and who doesn't [01:40:32] I do not think we are at the point where we can just eliminate that mechanism and hope people will do everything just because they want ... [01:40:49] ok, and why to not give a monitor technology to everyone (like a monitor app on your computer), and relay on physical state of the world instead of believe? [01:41:32] lukas: how is that relevant to money? [01:41:42] lukas: I am all for that ... [01:42:16] I'm for transparency and open participation [01:42:26] :-) [01:42:27] that has nothing to do with money though ... [01:42:43] btw kubu are u a developer to0? [01:43:01] DNS777: well ... depends on how do you define developer :) [01:43:13] hehe [01:43:15] any one can be developer [01:43:26] only not politician LOL [01:43:28] #include "power.h" [01:43:32] I'm developing a site from scratch based on yii frameword in PHP so you could say that I am :) [01:43:33] now I am a developah [01:43:33] lol [01:43:41] yii is nice? [01:43:49] !dance Fat64 [01:43:49] ACTION presents the moonwalk on the topic with Fat64 in #RBOSE [01:44:08] thats nice Kubu [01:44:21] Fat64: it's quite convenient yes :) [01:44:55] Kubu welcome to RBOSE btw :) [01:45:18] I do not have to bother with all the nitty gritty details around DB and user logins and stuff ... [01:45:30] Viper: thanks ;) [01:45:32] yeah, that stuff is over with [01:45:41] either with wordpress, or lower level frameworks [01:47:51] yii is quite lowe level ... [01:48:41] Kubu, you said that there are only options with hoarders or regulators, and what about option than everybody has access to any information related to hording? could we then achieve a state where wealth is distributed according to the rule of lowest energy, making one benefit if everyone benefits, and making the whole earth stable when it comes to power? [01:49:45] lukas: I agree that information is key ... that's why transparency is important [01:50:14] but if people do not act on that information you can not do much about that [01:50:54] that's the situation right now ... there is a lot of information on which people could reorganize the world ... but nobody actually does, why? [01:51:07] i would say 6 800 000 000 potentially involved people is quite a lot to observe what is going on [01:51:31] so what is preventing them from acting right now? [01:51:52] usually just laws and lack of information [01:51:52] lukas: I've thought about this for quite a lot :) [01:52:51] thre is really not lack of information to any too high of a degree ... [01:53:46] in a sense that there is enough information to demand the release of information that is not available ... so why people don't? [01:54:01] yea, and we all have a milk at breakfast and computers in every room, and people without enough food are fake [01:54:47] but they certainly do have information :| or?! [01:54:47] lukas: you do not understand ... I mean, there is information of you care to look for it [01:55:11] but most people don't [01:55:45] TV said that Kubu? lol [01:56:03] I have a lot of information to show to people to make them realize what the problem is ... but they don't want to really see it [01:56:50] they "don;t have time for that" or "that's a bunch of crap" or "we can not do anything about it" or "you're some kind of communist or what? lol [01:57:09] it's not simple, we have borders, we belong to different political districts, instead of being able to take care about all what is important in our lives, within range we want to look around, and the fact we can be cross-connected therefore be able to double, triple ... 1000 ... check something is blocked [01:57:44] I see it as a problem fo how to change the mindset of people ... [01:57:57] there is enough information ... mindset is wrong [01:58:53] Viper: no, that's my personal experience ... I do not watch TV for some years now :P [01:59:47] someone can be your neighbor, he can live 300m away, up there near the tree you see from a window, you are physically daily present in the same scope, but he is a part of different country, state or city, property, therefore it makes it quite complicated if you want to do something [02:00:26] lukas: it's about the way people look at the world, about the underlying philophy of life ... that's what needs to be changes as that's exactly what is targeted by "the elite", they understand this [02:01:49] lukas: borders have their purpose too [02:02:19] they can and are useful in quite a few situations and solve real problems [02:02:51] *** Joins: ciacon (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) [02:02:58] *** Quits: mo0h (qwebirc@RBOSE-jgmb6q.superkabel.de) (Quit: out to break the limits) [02:03:22] we have hierarchical layout of our political areas, and the main reason for that is centralization of power [02:04:01] if you had no borders it would require one political system [02:04:17] *** Quits: ciacon_ (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [02:04:18] or many overlaying [02:04:33] lukas: it's actually the very opposite ... the more borders, the less centralization [02:04:45] ? [02:04:53] this sounds strange [02:05:12] the more distrubted the less centralization [02:05:15] borders break up centralization and create autonomous areas with their own systems [02:05:59] that's why we see move *toward* centralization by the way of EU etc. [02:06:04] borders sounds like fences [02:06:31] DNS: the same as your house is a prison? :) [02:06:59] ^^ [02:07:07] DNS: it provides you with autonomy and place where you can do things your way [02:07:36] Kubu, I didn't say about borders in separation, i said about hierarchical layout of them [02:07:37] thats true [02:07:43] your house *protects you*, just like borders ... [02:08:15] lukas: what do you mean by that? [02:08:32] Controlling system do not have borders people do [02:08:36] who is decidin about the borders [02:09:12] DNS: the people who live within them :P [02:09:19] ideally that is ... [02:09:55] of course where there is a lot of people there is a guarantee that many of them will disagree no matter what the reality is ;) [02:10:08] i meant layout like: city, county, district, state, country, super-states [02:10:50] lukas: what's wrong with city, county etc. ? [02:11:06] yea who is decidin about that? [02:11:19] hierachical structures [02:11:20] the more local decision making is the better, that's what those 'separations' provide [02:11:21] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) [02:11:22] -|UFO|- Julius-ZM has quit FREENODE (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) [02:12:33] the desired state is a lot of volunarily cooperating as small soverign units as possible [02:13:19] If it were on me I would make *more* borders :) [02:13:45] actually, I would proclaim my house a soverign country and require visa if some wants to enter it :D [02:14:09] and I would make trade agreements with neighbors lol [02:14:52] i get that, but think about situation when you and your neighbor share physical space, but non of city, county, district, state, country [02:15:29] lukas: yeah ... the tragedy of commons ... very difficult thing to solve [02:16:05] and when it comes to cities and counties this is not a rare issue, think how we deal today with infrastructure between such regions [02:16:16] where does individual freedom end and 'society' takes precedence ... veery hard question [02:17:30] there is tradeoff between efficiancy and freedom ... [02:17:52] authoritarian systems are very efficient from the technical point of view [02:19:12] *** Quits: Mecha3 (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Connection closed) [02:19:22] this is apparent when you conside that it is far more efficient to have a central authority to decide and plan a highway though the whole country than let every single city vote on it [02:19:53] !hug RBOSE [02:19:54] ACTION hugs RBOSE for kalken and hopes that RBOSE enjoys it :) [02:20:00] so again ... it's a question of balance [02:20:22] common good sence :) [02:20:49] -|UFO|- Fodi69 has joined on FREENODE [02:21:04] Kubu, efficient in producing of unhappy people and exploiting resources without importance what people really want to do with their lives and just in order to make stuff, narrow group of people thought that using stuff is that what really makes sense? [02:21:32] because* narrow [02:21:38] lukas: as said from technical point of view ... of cause it makes a lot of people unhappy ;) [02:22:41] let me guess... there can be only one the reaches, the fastest, the best, even if we have 6.8 billion people... [02:22:59] it you want to build pyramides, you're going to achieve that quicker by slave labor than waiting for enough volunteers to turn up ... that's a reality, sad but reality - I do not decide that ;) [02:24:21] lukas: I'm not passing any judgement here ... I'm just stating reality, doesn't mean I like it [02:25:13] authoritative systems are more efficient from technical point of view than democratic ones ... that's how it is, I do not like that but unfortunately I do not make up the natural laws :) [02:25:47] authoritative systems != natural laws [02:26:10] authoritative systems are more efficient from technical point of view than democratic ones == natural law [02:26:22] hmm, yeah, i wonder which living organism is build according to authority [02:26:50] every single one ... authority = physical laws :P [02:26:54] so why to value such things? why to value scarcity of money? why to value centralization? can you build from exceptions? can you sustain civilization with exceptions? why not value the most common stuff like water, air, sand, plants, sun, wind, natural building? why not focus on technologies taking that because these have true potential to help just everyone, exactly like free software does? [02:27:42] why to make (everyone - 1) a looser? [02:28:02] scarcity of money is valued because it gives the desired properties that make them useful - that's pretty straightforward [02:28:23] Kubu: every system i see today basically ignores even the most simplest laws of nature. If the earth does not grow constantly, nothing on earth can grow infinetely [02:28:52] centraliation is valued because it functions more efficiently (from the tch jada jada) then decentralized ones [02:29:27] Kubu, so instead of copping the wealth you advocated simply taking it away from other people? [02:29:35] are we talking data storage or accessing data from one single point? [02:29:40] or something else [02:29:46] these concepts did not take hold just for nothing [02:29:58] they have certain properties which made them to do so [02:30:09] nothing is black and white [02:31:04] what about soccer balls [02:31:11] :) [02:31:16] lukas: hm? I do not understand what you're trying to ask me :) [02:32:06] the goal in this system is to have everyone under you [02:32:11] not beside you [02:32:32] kalken: not really ... that's what people do ... system doesn't do anything [02:33:22] if its a system that requires ppl to have something to get something, naturally people will start optimizing that [02:33:25] kalken: it's true that it perpetuates it ... but it had to take hold somehow [02:33:29] because of what they learn [02:34:06] kalken: if there wouldn't be a propensity for such a system to evolve it wouldn't exist [02:34:37] there need to be some pressures that made it what it is ... [02:34:43] so everything that exists is "just the way it is"? [02:34:51] atomic bombs? [02:34:58] do we really need them? [02:35:13] kalken: no, I say that everyhting exists for a reason ... something made it that way :) [02:35:24] Kubu, money creates exchange value based on scarcity, copying shifts that to use value - i just wonder if you understand that? in every traditional transaction we take wealth from others, but not with copying, so why to keep doing that if efficiency looks like this: [02:35:26] ofc :) [02:35:28] i guess japan need them hard [02:35:42] thats why everything can be changed :) if ppl are allowed to change it [02:35:44] if not [02:35:51] things will probably stay the same [02:36:08] or get worst [02:36:13] kalken: you can not take monetary system and say that it's just aberration that appeared here out of nowhere ... :) [02:36:41] thats why i did not say that :D [02:37:25] but its pretty strange how we seem to be unable to value resources in this system, which are not scarse [02:37:36] kalken: well ... I deduced that by implication :) you said if we need atomic bombs ... obviously some people do, that's why they exist ;) [02:38:06] oh yea and we need Oil [02:38:09] lol [02:38:31] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/TEZTBjMTPoI/AAAAAAADGAw/7X9btQ_k0j4/s800/LOL-OIL-TESLA-01.jpg [02:38:32] lukas: i do not have problem with copying ... [02:38:47] nice car :D [02:38:58] ;D [02:39:22] lukas: the money is not the problem ... underlying motivation is [02:39:36] Kubu: Let's assume you work 1h and you are able to buy in monetary system 1h of work of other person with same social status. Then when you share development freely, and if there is 1 mln of people doing the same, then after 1h of work you get result of 1 000 000 h of work. What is more efficient when it comes to accessing such culture? Physically nothing changes if you pay or not, those people do the same and total result is same, but [02:39:37] some are dumb enough to just restrict themselves. [02:39:44] money is a tool for corruption [02:39:50] Kubu: exactly. So how do we change it? [02:39:57] a very popular one ^^ [02:40:04] :D [02:40:37] lukas: I completely agree with that! ;) [02:40:50] so why the heck money? [02:41:08] lukas: because we do not have infinite amount of everything [02:41:30] because we focus on scare things, loop closed [02:41:34] lukas: software can be copied yes ... not so for metals for example [02:41:48] we don't need infinite amount, we need enough amount [02:41:50] you can not copy a 1kg of silver [02:41:55] We don't have an infinite amount of people, either. [02:42:12] information is a different paradigm then phisical objects [02:42:15] the requirement for direct trades need to go. And it will go when ppl are enlightened enough to realize that its in their own interest to take care of the environment surrounding them. Because it is what defines them :) [02:42:29] No it isn't, you need a physical world to store information [02:42:33] lukas: what is enough? [02:42:43] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_anticommons [02:42:44] URL Title: Tragedy of the anticommons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [02:42:52] but maybe we have at least an infinite amount of possibilities in the universe [02:42:56] :x [02:43:00] lukas: do we have enough resources to get a car for every single person on the face of the Earth? No, we don't ... [02:43:25] There's no reason for everyone to get a car. [02:43:35] Grits: says who? you? [02:43:47] yes, says me [02:43:58] the problem is not the car itself. Its getting from point A to B. [02:44:06] What's at point B? [02:44:17] Not every one on earth need a car at the same time [02:44:18] Grits: so now you want to become a world dictator and decide what is reasonable and what is not for other people? :) [02:44:23] some people are sleeping lol [02:44:27] Grits: not an A [02:44:29] :P [02:44:47] No, I don't want to become a dictator, I want you to slip on the soap and bust your head and go into a coma. [02:44:59] lol Grits [02:45:09] ;) [02:45:23] btw why we can not make a car for every one? [02:45:27] I am sure we can do that [02:45:33] So am I. [02:45:35] some people have 100000 cars [02:45:36] i want two! [02:45:42] I also know there's no reason for everyone to get one. [02:45:47] Kubu, you think that moving with 80kg person another 1000kg of mass every time to get a cup of tea of 1kg of sugar from store, or to get some virtual points which then are transfered anyway by coper wires through your bank is so smart than we need everyone to do so? [02:45:48] you see the problem is we do not have enough resources for everyhting we think of ... that's were the premises for RBE fail [02:45:48] Take infants, for example. [02:45:51] i wonder if u can do that in tokyo Viper [02:46:03] We do have enough resources for everything. [02:46:07] What we don't have is the will to cooperate instead of compete. [02:46:16] But not that every one get 10000 cars [02:46:23] u = we [02:46:36] lukas: the problem is that there needs to be someone deciding what is what is not 'reasonable' [02:46:46] BMW is starting to grow cars. [02:46:57] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac [02:46:58] You4Tube 2[Title] George Carlin Talks About "Stuff" 2[Category] Comedy 2[Duration] 0:05:09 2[Views] 2355403 2[Rating] 4.93 2[Uploaded] 2007-05-01 2[Description] George Carlin's classic standup routine about the importance of 'Stuff' in our lives. This was from his appearance at Comic Relief in 1986. Farewell George 1937-2008 http://www.HaphazardStuff.com [02:47:04] nite folks :D [02:47:09] lukas: if you want freedom, that choice lying solely and only on the individual person [02:47:15] or is it Mercedes [02:47:20] yeah, and people cannot think for themselves and help each other? [02:47:37] good night kalken :) [02:47:46] lukas: everybody thinks that way. They just dont think that others think this way :D [02:48:00] It's Mercedes, their Biome concept car. [02:48:12] lukas: if you made a suvey and ask people if they want a free car ... how many people do you think would say no? [02:48:42] lukas: now, you would end up with 6 billion people wanting a car, you can produce 1 billion ... what now? [02:48:58] how many of these people had access to physical information and not to emotional brainwash on TV? [02:49:01] I would say no, I don't want a car [02:50:02] lukas: part of freedom is a freedom to make 'wrong' decisions ... you can not decide for these people, the fact that they may have seen adverts on TV does not change that fact [02:50:21] authoritative systems are more efficient from technical point of view than democratic ones == natural law <--FAIL [02:50:40] lukas: that kind od similar situation can arise in zillion other variations [02:51:18] colllaboration in flat structures beat hierachial competition 100 times out of 10 [02:51:34] :D [02:51:44] w0rd [02:52:09] good night kalken :) [02:52:16] you just need people who know how to work together, simple as that [02:52:18] Caly: you're confusing things ... authoritative vs. democratic =/= competition vs. cooperation [02:53:37] you can be ordered by an authority to cooperate ;) [02:54:29] in fact, we are ordered to cooperate quite frequently ... or else :) [02:54:49] That's not cooperation, it's coercion. [02:55:24] that's cooperation by coercion ... the whole point being that they do not rule each other out [02:55:36] Sure they do. [02:55:37] it's a false dichotomy [02:55:38] *** Joins: SirMcLouis (SirMcLouis-RB@RBOSE-iv6gfb.dynamic.jazztel.es) [02:55:41] Cooperation is voluntary. [02:56:02] Grits: can be, doesn't need to be [02:56:17] Yes, it does, or it's not cooperation. [02:56:41] *** Quits: SirMcLouis (SirMcLouis-RB@RBOSE-iv6gfb.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: www.RBOSE.org) [02:58:03] Grits: cooperation means just working together to accomplish common goal, it doesn't require to be voluntary [02:58:03] *** Joins: SirMcLouis (SirMcLouis-RB@RBOSE-iv6gfb.dynamic.jazztel.es) [02:58:29] slaves building the pyramids (if we assume slaves built it) cooperated in building it [02:58:44] a common goal you not really voluntarily agree upon? [02:58:46] I don't give a damn what you think, giving into coercion is not cooperation. [02:58:46] they certainly did not compete, did they? :) [02:59:01] must be really common then.... [02:59:24] many goals in your life are decided by an authority for you [02:59:35] Speak for yourself. [03:00:36] you can be ordered by an authority to cooperate ;) <---moot [03:00:40] if a policeman stops you is it not your goal at that moment to stop walking? If not, why would you stop then? [03:00:58] *** Quits: SirMcLouis (SirMcLouis-RB@RBOSE-iv6gfb.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: www.RBOSE.org) [03:01:04] you must intent to stop in order to actually stop [03:01:06] When the police fuck with me my goal is to find out who they are so I can sneak into their house some night and slit their throats. [03:01:12] (real) collaboration happens from free will, if not, it's very unproductive by comparsion. [03:01:12] an intent for an action = goal [03:01:50] go watch Dan Pink or Howard Reinghold on TED.com [03:02:08] Caly: positive collaboration happens by free will [03:02:25] for instance... the scientificexperts in the field. [03:02:36] that's what i said [03:02:38] Caly: or 'real' if you want ... but the 'unreal' or negative cooperation is cooperation nonetheless ... [03:02:59] ... just not the kind we would want to see and practice [03:03:06] sure, but it's eons from as efficiant as volontary collaboration [03:03:11] when police force you. Its not cooperation [03:03:17] Caly: that's also true ... [03:03:22] right [03:03:31] but that's again a different issue [03:04:26] beeing forced or provoked to do something has NOTHING to do with what people want. [03:04:26] Caly, some people just think that we should deal with others as with tools, and computers should make decisions, under the pretext of efficency, but when it comes to their private lives and when they try to be creators, they only find how efficiently they are locked up and unable to do much about their life because the holy hierarchical system is so great [03:04:37] the fact that it's less efficient kind of cooperation doesn't mean it's not cooperation :) [03:05:02] i dont get the point [03:05:15] i dunno who you are Kubu, but you seem very confused [03:05:57] no, I'm just very careful with my definitions of words [03:06:11] when force is used its not cooperation [03:06:28] o_O [03:06:36] people automatically assume all cooperation must be positive ... this not necesarily so, just commonly so [03:06:44] _- [03:06:49] as i said, confused [03:07:30] Kubu you make me confused lol [03:07:32] ^^ [03:07:39] if a court decides that you must cooperate with authorities are they confused too? [03:07:49] ffs... [03:08:01] or does that not happen according to you? [03:08:05] why are you bothering with this guy? [03:08:17] thats NOT COOPERATION ffs... [03:08:21] its FORCE [03:08:26] so why are they calling it such? [03:08:31] word Caly [03:08:33] because they're liars [03:08:35] is the judge confused? [03:08:41] yes [03:09:03] just because the pigs use twisted semantic doens not make them correct [03:09:10] Oh, so then 99.9% of people are confused only you're not ... that's clear then :) [03:09:21] WORD [03:09:24] ^^ [03:09:36] I'd agree to that for sure [03:09:55] no Corporations care about people and govs do that too, because 99% of people think that way [03:09:57] If you are a Judge by trade, yes, then you are DEFENITELY fkn confused about reality [03:10:17] I prefer to use word bsed on their actual meaning and not redefine them ... but that's just me [03:10:21] one simple fact: prohibition has never ever ever worked. [03:10:39] Words don't have actual meanings, words are all virtual and arbitrarily defined. [03:10:48] touché [03:11:19] how come we speak to each other and understand each other if words do not have actual meaning :) [03:11:20] Do what court tell you is NOT cooperation [03:07] if a court decides that you must cooperate with authorities are they confused too? [03:11:34] if yo devote your life to telling people what to do, what is right or not, moral or not etc, then you are by defenition a fkn facist. [03:11:40] Viper: but is that not the language they use? [03:12:05] as every singel mofo cop, judge and military personel in the world [03:12:16] Caly: that's what I'm trying to avoid [03:13:15] Caly: that's what you are going to be forced to do if you take it upon yourself to tell other people what is 'reasonable' to have and what is not ... that's my whole point [03:13:23] Kubu they use $ language. Nothing els :D [03:13:44] money is a facist tool [03:14:15] you mouth is a fascist tool too if you use it for that purpose :D [03:14:24] sure. [03:14:29] i dont need to talk i will just show it [03:14:32] lol [03:14:34] we should ban mouths ... they coue people like Hitler to get to power :D [03:15:15] Viper: if you can show it, maybe we should ban hands too :) [03:15:21] that's the problem, people think criminalising things makes them dissapear [03:15:27] not with hands [03:15:50] Viper: oh, we ban people called Viper then ... [03:15:54] ;) [03:15:55] Viper: it's only you and dirk diggler... [03:16:11] -only [03:16:36] Caly: yeah ... that's why abolishing money is not going to work [03:16:42] ????? [03:16:47] guys about what we are arguing? [03:16:55] maybe cooperation is not the best word for it. but the underlying sttructure is the same. people working together by will or force to do A. [03:16:57] no idéa really. [03:16:57] Viper: I'm not sure anymore :) [03:17:18] !lol [03:17:19] RANDOM: http://savasplace.com/content/files/Image/blog_posts/kill-bill.jpg [03:17:30] Governments abolish shit, we can just stop using money. [03:17:36] ofc we shouldn't BAN monetary crap, we will simply make it obsolete [03:17:39] we got caught up in definitions of words we use ... [03:17:52] Kubu: you see no situation in which a society without money can exsist? [03:18:13] i dont care about money i dont need leaders [03:18:21] oh no ... I see the situation ... i just do not see how to get to that situation ;) [03:18:36] money is useful for many purposes [03:18:43] it is harmful in others [03:18:48] Kubu: ok. but the situation involves a different mindset, a new economic culture evolving, right? [03:18:56] scrdcow: exactly [03:19:16] We don't need a new culture, we already have appropriate cultures. [03:19:24] Mothers don't ask their babies for money to feed them. [03:19:38] scrdcow: it's not the issue of money but of mindset ... if mindset would be different, even money wouldn't be a problem anymore [03:19:38] People understand how to behave, the monetary system teaches them to wrong and harm each other. [03:19:40] earth dont ask people for money :D [03:19:47] Grits: WORD [03:20:01] Grits :))) [03:20:14] We don't need any different mindsets, we need to get rid of the psychological and sociological conditioning making everyone selfish and venal. [03:20:31] so true [03:20:37] Viper, earth is not efficient, lol [03:20:46] guys add it to quote please [03:20:47] Grits: "we need to get rid of the psychological and sociological conditioning making everyone selfish and venal" - that's called a different mindset lol [03:20:51] *** Quits: Haseldow (haseldow@RBOSE-c4mdl5.ipredate.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [03:20:53] Kubu: yes, ofcourse. no need for money when people don't need it/use it. but how do you want to change people without forcing them. [03:21:21] scrdcow: persuation ;) [03:21:34] Kubu: hehe yes [03:21:38] As I explained, we already have the right mindset, we apply it to our families generally and no further. [03:21:54] Mothers will starve to feed their children but not to feed children in another country. [03:21:57] Grits: yes, but that is the problem, and that I see as a shift in mindset. [03:22:13] Grits: to apply one type of mindset for everybody. not just your family. [03:22:16] I'm seriously not gonna waste more time on this totally fubar conversation. [03:22:22] scrdcow: I like (hope) to think people can make the right decisions if presented the right information ... at least most of the time heh [03:22:26] People behave that way naturally, the monetary system is the only thing giving the appearance people have a different "mindset" than that [03:22:38] People are spontaneously social and cooperative. [03:22:52] *** Joins: Haseldow (haseldow@RBOSE-7qc.rca.182.93.IP) [03:22:52] They have to be trained rigorously for 12 years or more to be taught to behave differnetly [03:22:55] differently [03:23:15] Kubu: I mostly think that way. but it's only based on hope. not on science. [03:23:35] I know for a fact people can't reach the right conclusions from good information. [03:23:44] I've seen people willfully engage denial constantly. [03:23:46] Grits: I would agree to that. but to get out of the system that now exsist... [03:24:00] We can't get out of this system, we have to get rid of the system. [03:24:06] Grits: somehow people are not using the same mindset for their family as for the rest. [03:24:36] Grits: yes, that's what I mean. [03:25:24] all in all I think we can reduce the use of money by a huge amount ... the only thing I disagree so far is that we can get rid of it all together [03:26:06] If we abandoned the monetary system today we'd see nothing but immediate and ongoing benefits. [03:26:07] maybe we get to that point but that's premature to think about I believe [03:26:17] The monetary system is nothing but a burden. [03:26:51] Grits: if we did that we would see unimaginable chaos on a scale the world has not seen ever :) [03:26:57] What you suggest is like saying you can drop some bricks you're carrying up a hill but not all of them since you need bricks to climb a hill. [03:27:01] The premise is all wrong. [03:27:17] We don't need money for anything, the monetary system is nothing but a drain of resources. [03:27:38] Grits: then stop using it ... nobody is preventing you [03:27:39] Well put. [03:27:47] I already have for the most part. [03:28:02] I cycle about $500 a year [03:28:17] nice [03:28:34] property taxes and internet service, that's about it [03:28:51] where do you get your food from? do you grow it all? [03:28:59] most of it [03:29:07] Kubu: I sort of agree. we have to take everything in evolving steps imo. [03:29:29] There are lots of ways to get food without money, I use several of them. [03:29:42] Money doesn't feed people, money keeps people from being fed. [03:29:57] scrdcow: that's the problem I have with Z, it's taking a too much of a jump and a leap of faith without intermadiary steps ... [03:30:22] fuck that cult [03:30:53] Kubu: that is the problem with alot of subcultures imo. and the porblem arises from information without true knoweldge and knowing by doing. imo. [03:31:02] Viper: lol, their arguments are not very different from those presented here ... [03:31:18] Kubu: it's easy to think how things should be. but implementing and really knowing by trying to build is different. [03:31:18] scrdcow: that's very true [03:31:37] Kubu: the map never equates the territory. [03:31:40] ,quote add What you suggest is like saying you can drop some bricks you're carrying up a hill but not all of them since you need bricks to climb a hill. The premise is all wrong. We don't need money for anything, the monetary system is nothing but a drain of resources. ~ Grits [03:31:41] lukas: The operation succeeded. Quote #161 added. [03:32:11] Kubu: are you familiar with raw? [03:32:36] lukas: that assumes bricks are of no use to you ... money is useful in certain situations, maybe you disagree but I believe so ... [03:33:01] yeah, you _believe_, i see clearly that [03:33:14] lukas: if you're going to that hill to build a house you better drop as few bricks as possible lol [03:33:35] scrdcow: you mean diet? :D [03:33:48] the problem with money as I see it is that it has a made up value. you can't eat it, drink it, etc. maybe you can wipe your ass with it. but it's just paper. [03:34:13] scrdcow: sure, it's an accounting tool ... doesn't mean it's not useful [03:34:20] scrdcow, it's more, people believe in it [03:34:32] Money is only useful as a tool to control people. [03:34:35] lukas: ofcourse that is the culuture we have today. [03:35:07] Kubu: ofcoruse it can be used for things. but it's still just a layer. [03:35:15] scrdcow: but there is a reason to believe that I can buy food for money ... because I can go out and actually do it :) [03:35:19] Kubu its useless [03:35:28] Kubu: and a layer that makes certain anwanted behaviours possible that I don't like. [03:36:03] Kubu: with alot of other resources it's not as easy. but still possible depending on what you want to accomplish. [03:36:12] scrdcow: sure ... and it makes other things possible that you may like ... nothing is black and white as I said ... [03:36:28] what about penguins [03:36:36] Kubu: yes, it works becouse everone believes in it. but it's still just a layer on top of the real value and real structure of economy. [03:36:36] Grits: I like penguins [03:36:51] scrdcow: yes, as it is supposed to be [03:37:44] scrdcow: if you write a note in your diary to meet someone it's just words on paper and it's not the actual meeting ... but it's useful to you because it keeps track of your time ... money is the same way [03:38:36] just instead of time it keeps track of wants and desires in agreggate [03:38:54] There's no reason to keep track of that except to enable production of it. [03:38:59] you believe too much in $ [03:39:05] Money amounts to rationing. [03:39:14] Kubu: hard getting my point clear. sorry, my bad. I see a problem with a monetary system without timelimits. it makes alot of unwanted behaviours possible, or atleast far esier. when you try to construct a monetary system without this problems it gets down to the point where i'm having a hard time seeing the point of it all. [03:39:22] (I will have to be more specific...) [03:39:25] People piss and moan and say money is so much better because without it we'd have dictators deciding what we get. [03:39:26] and you believe too much in an ability to completely remove money ... :P [03:39:34] We have that with money, so what is it preventing. [03:40:09] Grits people believe they are free [03:40:30] the worry is that you would get a lot of "freeriders" [03:40:44] Again we have that now. [03:40:54] people who do nothing ... and with no way to track effort there is no way to reward people who actually do something [03:41:06] We already have plenty of people who do nothing. [03:41:09] Do you build homes? [03:41:20] i dont [03:41:30] me neither, do you? :) [03:41:51] yes, I'm building my own home, and I've dont construction all my life [03:41:55] done [03:41:58] but I can make a website, get money for it and give it to a guy who builds a house for me [03:42:00] Kubu: you will always have problem with people not wanting to help out in a given society. it will always be there. [03:42:07] Do you grow food? [03:42:30] scrdcow: sure, the problem is how to deal with it ... [03:42:47] Kubu, what about some physics as antidote? learning how nature does the things? so you don't end up with only one option and no other choice which is to believe, and actually would be able to do something real? [03:43:20] scrdcow: the idea of no money rests on the premise that enough people are going to work voluntarily to provide for everyone ... I'm not convinced that can be achieved by now [03:43:54] I'm not convinced you do anything for anyone yet you stay warm and fed. [03:43:57] Kubu: what do you mean "by now"? [03:44:02] You want that to change? [03:44:09] Kubu: I think it has to grow into a new gift economy culture. [03:44:12] the only thing is to just *believe* there will be enough people ... you seem to like using that word :P [03:44:31] of course I want that to change [03:44:41] Stop eating then, go live in a ditch. [03:44:42] and I'm changing it everywhere I can [03:45:04] I see it as very possible to achieve in software [03:45:10] we have 6.8 people, how much you need? [03:45:17] and that's where I'm engaged right now with my project [03:45:18] 6.8 billions* [03:45:49] Machines already do almost all of the work that keeps our society going. [03:45:56] Kubu: yes, I understand that. just wondering what you meant "by now", not enough people to accomplish excatly what? [03:46:18] lukas: we have 6.8 billions with needs ... only a fraction of them will produce those needs voluntarily [03:46:30] only a fraction does that now [03:46:38] Kubu: I don't strive any longer to solving the whole. [03:46:39] scrdcow: to accomplish a society without money [03:46:41] True Grits [03:46:55] Kubu: only to solve for myself and people around me. then i't up to them to solve it for others around them etc. [03:47:05] Kubu: yes, but what a type of society? [03:47:21] Grits: far bigger fraction than with money ... it's not a fraction like a fraction ;) [03:47:34] *without money [03:47:45] Less than 5% of the population is involved with any kind of production. [03:48:01] btw we dont need most crap that we make right now [03:48:04] Actually that's wrong, it's a lot less, around 5% of the JOBS involve production. [03:48:11] Kubu: it's possibility only has to do with what you define as a society. I would agree that as complicated a society we have today, it's not possible today. but a far less complicated and big one. [03:48:12] So that's 5% of the people with jobs only. [03:48:32] Grits: it's not only striclty production what you need ... there is also distribution, administration etc. [03:48:57] Managers and Directors right LOL [03:49:17] oh yea we need banks. If there is no bank food dont grow [03:49:31] LOL [03:49:33] Computers and machines already do 99% of distribution and administration. [03:49:35] Viper: right ... you NEED people who can organize people ... we call them managers now ... doesn't matter, still you need them [03:49:47] Grits: that's plain BS [03:49:47] banks organize people? [03:49:48] control by control [03:49:59] I will repeat my self guys, but i really wonder what Kubu is advocating.... [03:50:02] Oh, do you see people carrying bags of apples on their backs down the highways? [03:50:03] no [03:50:05] Trucks do it. [03:50:05] Viper: managers occur only in banks? that's news ... [03:50:14] think globaly act localy as the saying goes. [03:50:21] trucks without drivers right? lol [03:50:27] Yes [03:50:29] Good" economy is an economy where profit (for example measured through GDP) increases, but profit can exist only with transactions, and every transactions is an exchange between those who have and those who don't. So since "good" economy is proportional to number of transactions or their total "value", its natural consequence is that we tend to maximize number of them, therefore we try to make the gap between those who have and those who [03:50:29] and without people loading and uloading them [03:50:29] robots [03:50:30] don't have, the biggest possible. How defeating and stupid (people act against them selves) it is? [03:50:41] easily done, but of course the amount of work a truck driver does compared to a truck is minuscule [03:50:56] Kubu are you from scientology? [03:51:08] Viper: haha, no [03:51:16] The same economy is against prosperity and well-being, that if you would imagine an idealistic situation where everybody is self sufficient, on individual level or within community, and can solve all the problems, that would be extremely good condition for people, but the economy would be doomed, there would be no single transaction. [03:51:37] A typical lawnmower is capable of about 10 times the work of a human being. [03:51:37] lukas: who cares about economy [03:51:38] But people are stupid and need managers ? [03:51:50] without needing rest [03:52:11] You don't see already machines do almost everything for us? [03:52:16] Maybe i should get a manager to manage my talking LOL [03:52:16] Viper: yes, we need managers ... are project in rbose magically organize themselves without coordinators eg managers? [03:52:20] Kubu, I care about the conditions, and mechanism in place which pointed out Grits, that you cannot feed people because the monetary system is there. [03:52:23] *** Quits: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-lrfah1.cust.tele2.se) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [03:52:38] Kubu sorry but we dont have managers in rbose [03:52:42] there is no project manager [03:52:47] lukas: that's not because of monetary system that you can not feed people [03:52:57] the economy up there = your religion of money [03:53:16] and we dont have coordinators [03:53:27] lukas: it's because some oligarch have control over production and distribution [03:53:55] lukas: that can arise just as well without money [03:53:57] how people grow food 1000 years a go without managers? [03:54:11] Kubu, yeah, and when you have a company it's so weird that you want to kick out all the competitors out of the business? [03:54:14] I guess it was Magic :D [03:54:15] Viper: there always were managers ... they just weren't called that [03:54:28] Kubu TV told you that? lol [03:54:50] Viper: common sense tells me that ;) [03:54:58] Grits do you have a manager? lol [03:55:03] when you grow food build home [03:55:07] I do not [03:55:08] Or you use Magic :D [03:55:37] Kubu how do you explain that? [03:55:47] *** DNS is now known as HarryPotter [03:55:54] lol [03:55:57] * HarryPotter does some magic in #RBOSE [03:56:03] *bling [03:56:08] *** HarryPotter is now known as DNS [03:56:10] are you suggesting you need manager for EVERY action you take? [03:56:17] Managers and Directors are useless [03:56:26] you make absurd extrapolations [03:56:28] He is building home growing food [03:56:42] thats not nothing [03:56:56] build a maglev train without managers and you'll have a point [03:57:01] so you're still into that verbal mastrubation huh? *sigh* [03:57:52] yeah, some people call that verbal masturbation logic :) [03:57:54] that notion of a need for centralised decision-making if anything but correct [03:58:03] *is [03:58:35] time to wake the fuck up and learn about community driven consensus based development. [03:58:56] build a maglev train without any managers eg coordinating people and I'll bow before you :) [03:59:05] i guess people get dum. In past we did not need managers [03:59:26] we weren't building maglev trains either [03:59:45] We're not building them now, either. [03:59:46] and we really need them, or maybe not? [03:59:50] despite money and managers [04:00:01] MagLev is obsolete. [04:00:12] it has air resistance. [04:00:26] Caly: depends on the design :P [04:00:34] ETT is the shit [04:01:10] lukas: we really need them as far as I see it in some situation ... we should make them as open and democratically chosen as possible but we need people who will organize things [04:01:12] evacuated tube transports [04:01:16] Kubu i still dont get it what are you trying to say? [04:01:24] Our system is good??? [04:01:36] We need managers and banks ? [04:02:19] Viper: no :) just that things are not black and white ... you can not say money is nonsense and not useful for any purpose at all ... that's simply not true, that's all [04:02:26] Kubu: management implemented in software democratically controlled by the users involved? [04:02:28] It is true. [04:02:37] btw, i saw som moron bashing the venus crap by trying to bash ETT becouse it was impossible and sooo risky, becouse they could leak vaccum and everyone would die... [04:02:38] Money is nonsense. [04:02:48] Money is nothing [04:02:51] Its only function is as a tool to control people. [04:02:55] its just a way to control people [04:02:55] like... yeah, they have that same problem with airplanes. [04:03:08] scrdcow: a part can be implemented like that ... not all though [04:03:13] everyone dies.. or wait, no, itäs the safest means of transport there is todey. [04:03:46] not ofr the environment, but fr individuals [04:04:07] Caly: some people are stupid yes :) [04:04:10] i guess this talking is going nowhere [04:04:16] monay works only as long as people believes in it. [04:04:25] Word Caly! [04:04:28] Viper: i got that an hour ago [04:04:39] :) [04:04:48] we are just wasting time at this point anyway :) [04:04:52] as i said, verbal mastrubation mostly [04:05:00] Kubu: no, not all. but we get don't to the very definition of management. that's what I see the accuring undertone in this whole discussion. you treat words very accurately imo, their essence. [04:05:02] next time some one kick me [04:05:27] Kubu: but would you call me a manager if I asked you to get me a sandwish? (not sudo make me a sandwish ;-) ) [04:05:36] pointless dissection of semantics seems to be the agenda of the night.... [04:06:04] scrcow he would call a banker LOL [04:06:06] scrdcow: I would consider you a manager when you coordinate more than one person to accomplish certain goal [04:06:20] Kubu: in that sense I don't think we really need managers. we just need to gather information, design, pick job, do it. [04:06:21] *scrdcow [04:06:29] Kubu: p2p-wize [04:06:51] manegement is by no means in any need of managers. [04:06:56] scrdcow: if you coordinate two people to make a burger at McDonalds you're a manager ... that's how they actually call those people :D [04:07:16] Kubu: ok. and the role has to be a given role? not just someone implying that overs could do something? [04:07:32] Kubu: it has to be with som kind of force? [04:07:47] *** Quits: anne (anne@RBOSE-rpnuup.adsl.tpnet.pl) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [04:08:16] Managers at fast food stores don't manage the employees, they manage the inventory, and all of that could be done easily by a computer. [04:08:36] scrdcow: it can arise organically, like people deciding they want to bake a cake and picking the most capable person to coordinate it :) [04:08:37] they prolly define the workers as inventory also ;-) [04:08:45] Kubu: We are by definition doing extremely well in this economy if 10% of people has no job, this is the necessary condition. Why to accept this as an ideal economic situation if one person from every group of 10 people has problems with means to exist by design and will of government and corporations? It goes up to 20% in many countries right now. If you have money you have jobs. If you have jobs, you have a labor of jobs, or stagnancy. [04:08:46] Then how many people you want to exclude in hunger, homeless, without access to water, etc. if you need at the same time be able to to kick people out of jobs and replace them, because they may ask for more money? Have you thought about this? [04:09:35] lukas: I did not say I accept current system as ideal ... to the contrary I certainly do not [04:10:04] In 10% is 30 000 000 of people. [04:10:06] Kubu: the thing is that I actually think you can take every project and pin it down in GTD-fashion, every action needed. and that action alone won't need anything else than someone, or some people to complete it. it ofcourse needs a depend system, but still. [04:10:10] *** Quits: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-rveuh1.pool.t-online.hu) (Quit: ) [04:10:10] -|UFO|- Fodi69 has quit FREENODE () [04:10:14] In USA 10% is 30 000 000 of people. [04:10:18] Kubu would you like to join any rbose project? [04:11:04] scrdcow: you need to make the actions fit together ... the most effective way to do that is to pick a manager :) maybe they'll be found a better way but I do not know of any as of now [04:11:12] 10% is 680 000 000 of people on this planet [04:11:43] lukas: ok, your point being? I said i do not consider current system ideal ... [04:11:46] lukas as manager i would say they dont count LOL [04:11:57] Kubu: you need a design. you don't believe that can be made without management? [04:12:01] ?? projects [04:12:01] projects: RBOSE Projects: http://rbose.org/wiki/Projects [04:12:02] URL Title: Projects - RBOSE [04:12:17] Kubu: the design gets produces in p2p-fashion aswell. [04:12:18] it's not an innocent number, and "not ideal" doesn't look like enough attention to this issue [04:12:22] Kubu and check why how what to understand better rbose [04:12:24] lukas: rbotse does not ignore missboty anymore somehow [04:12:30] ?? whw [04:12:31] whw[x]: No defintion found for word. [04:13:04] ah yea [04:13:19] missboty: isnt really identified it seems [04:13:20] DNS: Sorry, but if you want to talk with me, then maybe try it in the following channel(s): #mumble #music #news #tcl #test [04:13:23] lol [04:13:32] ok well ... I think we pretty much agree, i just think that the position that you can just remove money is too extreme and not evidence/reality based [04:14:06] that we will see. start building the alternative and we will see how far it will go ;-) [04:14:35] I prefer to now say neither. only focus on my surroundings and building. [04:14:36] :) [04:14:39] not* [04:14:39] sure ... I would like it to be possible but I do not decide reality and there is no way to say at this point [04:14:54] (but I actually do not do much building, but atleast that's my focus and will) [04:15:17] yes [04:16:25] I'm going to invest my energy into things a can reasonable expect to be possible to achieve in near future (at least in my lifetime lol) [04:16:38] sure, no one tried to make it a reality, and saying "the house is not there, so i will not build it" makes so much sense like "the house is there so i will build it" [04:17:11] *** Quits: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: Connection reset by peer) [04:17:12] *** Joins: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [04:17:12] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o missboty [04:17:46] lukas: the premise is not reality based [04:18:02] *** Joins: ciacon_ (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) [04:18:12] lukas: the premise for building a house is [04:18:22] there is fundamental difference there [04:18:24] *** Quits: ciacon (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [04:19:12] lukas: anyway ... it's a good vision to aspire for ... but it's also just a belief at this point [04:19:21] Kubu: does that things has to be very scalable? [04:19:55] scrdcow: preferrably :) [04:19:57] Kubu: or can you allow yourself to only focus on local things. that maybe can help others, in parts or as a whole. are it also things focused with systemthinking? [04:20:04] Kubu, my field is physics i look into matter and stuff around, not into believes in virtual points, know a little more about reality than a statistical Joe Doe [04:21:04] lukas: but you seem ready to accept the premise that people will just work for other from the good of their heart, where is the evidence for that? [04:21:39] lukas: it's a hopem it's a noble hope and I hope so too ... but that's what it is and that's what I need to acknowledge [04:21:41] Let me show you: [04:21:47] Where is the evidence they won't? And why do people need to work at all? Ever hear of machines? [04:22:06] Machines are already doing 99% of the work. [04:22:18] Grits: not true by a long shot [04:22:22] Grits Managers and banks are doing that LOL [04:22:33] Have you ever seen a modern automobile manufacturing plant? [04:22:52] Human beings don't even touch the cars until they put a key in them to drive them onto a flat bed truck. [04:23:07] so yes, machines are already doing 99% of the work [04:23:10] Grits: yes, it happens to be dominant industry in my country ... it employs the most people [04:23:17] Define work. What work? When? [04:23:29] Hey kman :) [04:23:37] ^^ [04:24:40] Kubu: where do you live? [04:24:42] kman: wtf, you up still? [04:24:43] I'm talking about a modern manufacturing plant. [04:24:57] scrdcow: Slovakia ;) [04:25:13] Kubu: you know toxygene? (this is a long shot) [04:25:22] scrdcow: no :) [04:25:23] (and pretty dumb one at that) [04:25:25] ok [04:25:44] Kubu: If you like the idea of having access to, for example, 10 000 technical designs (or books, songs, movies, cooking recipes, lectures.), you only need 10 000 individuals to create and share one performance each. In a country like Germany, where you have 80 000 000 people, it would be enough to have 118 creative individuals (and for sure there is a lot more creative people than that around). 1 person in 680 000 would be enough. Now, if [04:25:46] only once in a lifetime, each person made one lecture, for others, for free, we would have 6.8 billion lectures out there, even if we don't account for passing generations. Then why do we keep asking each other for money when we do lectures, and limit our own access to such abundance? How many hours in your life would you want to be able to go to lectures, how many of them do you want to see? We don't need everyone to fit into "people will [04:25:47] just work for other from the good of their heart", we need a very small amount of people out there to achieve that. I would call it very efficient. [04:26:49] lukas: you're talking about information, not phisical product ... I talk physical products! I already said that multiple times ... it's a different paradigm, you can not copy phisical goods contrary to knowledge [04:27:20] Kubu, but do you get the physical part? [04:27:37] lukas: 90% of wikipedia content is made of 10% of it's users. [04:27:54] lukas: btw have you heard of the p2p-university? [04:28:28] no, i haven't heard about it [04:28:39] (sorry, don't want to distract the conversation thou..) [04:29:14] lukas: in order to feed 1,000 people you need certain number of people to work *continuously* contrary to your example where you make a lecure and billions of people can study it without a zinch fro you anymore [04:29:46] scrdcow: you mean the one featured on Mozilla Drumbeat? :) [04:29:47] still, on avarage in FOSS projects, the typical user helps out ONCE, never to be seen again. [04:30:56] right now we grow more food then we need Kubu [04:31:07] most is trown away [04:31:10] wikipedia is acctually not a good example, as it is hierarchial and has a very backwards approach on collaboreation in many ways [04:31:14] Caly: software. is. a. different. paradigm. how many time should I repeat that? That's why I'm involved exactly in that ... aaah :) [04:31:21] lukas: oh, there actually seems to be more than one... this is not the one I was thinking about thou.. -> http://p2pu.org/ [04:31:23] URL Title: p2pu | Learning for everyone, by everyone, about almost anything [04:31:39] Dude, i work on RepRaps, it's the same thing there. [04:31:42] Kubu: I don't know about mozilla drumbeat. it had computer science atleast. [04:32:13] MOST advancec are from people that only contribute with one design. [04:32:13] scrdcow: check it out, interesting project by Mozilla ... [04:32:24] and the designs are still free to copy [04:32:29] Caly: point being? [04:32:43] Caly: you're still talking about information not physical goods [04:32:49] so? [04:33:07] Caly: there is a fundamental difference for gods sakes!!! [04:33:19] ytou canät use ANY FKN information WITHOUT physical tools anyway [04:33:28] you can copy design quadrillion times without any cost whatsoever [04:33:54] Kubu: have you read peerconomy? you know of p2p foundation? oekonux conference? [04:33:54] You certainly CAN produce hardware without any need for monetary crap [04:33:56] you CAN NOT do that for physical goods [04:34:03] you can GROW plastic [04:34:32] ah ok ... let' end this :) [04:35:07] there is no benefit in wasting more time on talking about things that won;t solve anything anyway [04:35:12] Kubu, how many kJ your body needs a day? what mass of food? how much water? what is the heat you need at winter time (not in money, because i don't want to ask your broker to heat your home, but i wonder if you would ever notice if that energy would be next to you)? why you are so sure you need distribution of food if you are not so sure about amount of the food? what about the space on this planet? how much area there is for each human [04:35:13] being? do you know that in arab countries they build 8 store high buildings out of mud? it's normal there, so why we even move bricks up the hill? how can you cleanup water? what are the nutritions you need? what about insulation kWh/m2? why to be so dependent on corporate/gov services if your home can produce electricity, gather water, produce food, reduce heating requirements, let you grow stuff to use in reprap? [04:35:15] *** Quits: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: OO_OO) [04:35:15] Kubu: that is my main interest field when it comes to p2p and free production. how to make it possible even for physical things. [04:35:39] *** Joins: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [04:35:39] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o missboty [04:36:51] lukas: I do not see the point you're trying to make ... of course we should do things as efficiently as possible ... [04:37:10] scrdcow: that is my interest too ;) [04:37:18] i'm pointing out physical needs [04:37:39] Kubu: I unerstood that, just wondering if you knew about those sites/happenings/etc. [04:38:01] if you can get your home to do the job, then access the culture with computer connection, organize with people to do other important stuff at your community, then how much other stuff you need? [04:38:36] Kubu: atleast oekonux conference has been very informative for me, have only skimmed peerconomy yet. and p2pfoundation is great for reference. [04:38:38] *** Quits: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: Connection reset by peer) [04:38:39] *** Joins: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [04:38:40] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o missboty [04:38:41] scrdcow: there is a paradigm shift happening in physical things thanks to automation ... that can be expoited but some people takt to extreme unreal extremes [04:39:12] Kubu: well yes, it's hard to know, you can only make, build, try out. [04:39:21] http://www.davidsheen.com/firstearth/videos.htm [04:39:22] URL Title: First Earth | Videos [04:39:31] Kubu: i'm hoping the essence of giving will change people not involved in this. [04:39:58] yeah ok ... I've spent a lot of time here ... I did not intend that :) [04:40:05] Kubu: if they really know what they are running, using etc. on what values it is made, and I actually believe it will show in the products capabilities. [04:40:37] I should sleep. [04:40:43] likewise [04:40:56] Kubu, think about the paradigm that one's home should secure fundamental needs, not external services [04:41:08] it's to risky then to manipulate people [04:41:09] *** Quits: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: OO_OO) [04:41:58] *** DNS is now known as infobot [04:42:10] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o infobot [04:42:26] *** infobot is now known as DNS [04:42:27] Kubu: drumbeat makes me think of freedombox somehow. [04:42:52] scrdcow: that should be in there somewhere [04:42:53] btw, i have a TED about that paradigm [04:42:53] *** Joins: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [04:42:54] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o missboty [04:43:16] scrdcow: btw, do you listen to Eben Moglen (coined the freedombox term) [04:43:46] Kubu: yes [04:43:58] Kubu: but I still don't really se what drumbeat does... only it's mission. [04:44:04] scrdcow: he makes great speeches [04:44:06] Kubu: is it a repo for projects or what? [04:44:08] Kubu: yes [04:44:24] scrdcow: yup, a repo [04:44:32] ,quote get 117 [04:44:32] lukas: Quote #117: "The great moral question of the twenty-first century is this: if all knowing, all culture, all art, all useful information can be costlessly given to everyone at the same price that it is given to anyone; if everyone can have everything, anywhere, all the time, why is it ever moral to exclude anyone? -- Eben Moglen" (added by lukas at 07:07 PM, September 07, 2010) [04:44:45] Kubu: with him and RMS I just which they didn't had such big bellies.. don't want them to die to soon ;-) [04:44:48] scrdcow: an infrastructure for web freedom projects if you will [04:44:56] Kubu: ok [04:45:13] *** DNS was kicked by DNS777 (Goal!) [04:45:25] lol [04:45:39] *** Joins: DNS (alien@kidnapped.from.mars) [04:46:01] I have tried to figure out RMS diet, but have found none info on it. hehe [04:46:06] no* [04:46:13] just curious. [04:47:01] scrdcow: I find rms quite ... well ... not good at speeches :) [04:47:23] Kubu: he is good but not when you get to q&a [04:47:28] Kubu: imo [04:47:35] there we go, but it is in polish: http://vimeo.com/12697239 [04:47:36] URL Title: TEDxPoznaĹ„ - PaweĹ‚ SroczyĹ„ski - Od ĹĽycia komĂłrkowego do Habitatu. Ewolucja idei schronienia on Vimeo [04:47:45] Kubu: but it's pretty much preaching to the choir sometimes, especielly with his jokes. [04:48:02] he has good philosphy ... but he can't speak captivatingly about it :D [04:48:11] Kubu: ah ok.. [04:48:58] he is kind of weird guy :) but that goes with the perspective at world i guess :) [04:49:11] Kubu: i'm more concerned when people ask questions. he has a very aspie way of answering and quickly interupting people when they say the "wrong" things, are not correct enough etc. than can be good, but I think it come off as pretty harsch. [04:49:33] true scrdcow [04:49:43] I just worry who will take the torch after rms is no longer with us [04:50:08] scrdcow: yeah, that reminds me of ... me! :) [04:50:12] *** Quits: DNS (alien@kidnapped.from.mars) (Quit: changing servers) [04:50:19] he hasn't really denied being an aspie. I think it's pretty evident and I like that :-) [04:50:58] (denied for himself that is) [04:51:14] Kubu: heh [04:51:15] scrdcow: I actually envy him for that, the use of precise language is very important [04:51:31] Kubu: yes, likewise. but I think for many it come of as extreme. [04:51:47] scrdcow: because if you subvert the language you subert the philospohy behind it [04:51:59] Kubu: but it has the value of really trying to understand the underlying words. [04:52:02] Kubu: yes [04:52:08] scrdcow: yeah, but that's because of their own ignorance :P [04:52:16] http://www.stallman.org/photos/australia/sydney-cockatiels/pages/2.html :) [04:52:17] URL Title: Picture 2 of 4 [04:52:51] *** Joins: DNS (DNS777@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [04:52:54] Kubu: yes. it only has to do what your mission is and what you believe is the most effective way. being correct about words or spreading your words and enlightning people... hehe [04:52:56] more people should pay greater attention to the words they use [04:53:39] that's why I can be sometimes a definition nazi just like Stallman :D [04:54:29] I have this inner battle. of trying to being very accurate, and correct. but still not getting irritated by people who are not. but it always ends with missunderstandings because of people not being able to think accurate and using accurate wording. because I treat it much more accurate. [04:54:31] sounds like politician to me [04:54:41] scrdcow: the question is ... if you're spreding the message using incorrect words are you still really spreading the message ... [04:54:51] Kubu: it's a balance ofcourse. [04:55:09] you could always let the development speak for itself [04:55:20] lukas: yes, I prefer that. [04:55:36] lukas: or.. both are good, all tactics should be used at the same time. [04:55:36] "always ends with missunderstandings because of people not being able to think accurate and using accurate wording" - oh, tell me about it ... lol [04:57:22] the only accurate languages i seen are programming languages and science, you can be quite sure that people get that the same, other than that it's folklore [04:57:52] and i mean here only strict sciences [04:58:25] yeah, we should aspire to aproximate our language to that level of accuracy ;) [04:58:30] lukas: yes. I agree, and that is part of the problem. maybe I have really looked the meaning of a word, its etymologi. and then someone uses it's in a complete differnt way. I can accept it, but having a hard time not missinterpreting it. [04:58:38] Kubu: lojban! [04:58:46] (atleast we get a logical one) [04:59:51] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVWNlvI-eB4 [04:59:52] You4Tube 2[Title] One Mainframe To Rule Them All (1of5) 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:10:01 2[Views] 40881 2[Rating] 4.87 2[Uploaded] 2009-10-13 2[Description] One Mainframe To Rule Them All is a breathtaking rundown of the human microchipping agenda. Concise and effective, it breaks down the coming global information control grid in all its horrifying detail. Scarier than any horror movie could be because it is real and docu [05:00:06] sorry, my english is really bad this late hours. I see all the mistakes afterwords. [05:01:05] scrdcow, not a problem, I have same symptoms at a bit different time :) [05:01:15] ok guys, great talking to you ;) [05:01:33] I'll e back :D [05:01:44] :) [05:02:09] btw the original reason I was going here was to suggest the developer of anarchnet to look at tribler [05:02:22] there is some overlap and I thought he might find that useful [05:02:28] ok, will forward that to him [05:03:09] is it in active development by the way? [05:03:26] last comit was around a half a year ago if I'm not mistaken [05:03:29] not atm, nairboon got busy with other stuff :| [05:03:52] hausmannsgt 34. now you kno till next time,did you find your swede? [05:04:14] ah, that's a shame ... nontheless maybe he'll find tribler interesting :) [05:04:15] look at that... [05:04:52] ok, the info has been sent to nairboon :) [05:04:53] ignore, that is meaningless out of context [05:04:53] Kubu: tribler? [05:05:05] and anarchnet? sounds interessting. [05:05:40] comotion: moo? [05:06:38] scrdcow: yeah, check it out ... it's a research project focused on developing totally decentralized file sharing [05:06:40] *** Quits: kman (erik@RBOSE-qi4gro.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [05:06:45] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3CR7H0JxnA 1991/92 UK hip hop, check out the lyrics :] [05:06:46] You4Tube 2[Title] Caveman - Talkin' Bout Streetlife (The Principle Remix) 2[Category] Music 2[Duration] 0:04:16 2[Views] 127 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2010-05-23 2[Description] Caveman - Talkin' Bout Streetlife (The Principle Remix) 1992 Profile Records Ltd. (UK) Classic! [05:08:46] Kubu: url? [05:09:11] Kubu: there is alot of those... overlapping. but they have the same design approach? [05:09:26] tribler.org lol [05:09:26] Kubu: I bet you know about gnunet etc etc [05:09:52] hehe, late night lazyness. [05:09:52] sure, gnunet ... but they have different goals [05:10:24] Kubu: gnunet is a complete layer and tribler only want's to do filesharing? [05:11:29] scrdcow: well AFAIK gnunet is also trying to be totally anonymous, they do redirections and stuff .. tribler i focused more on user friendliness - channels, rating, reputation etc. [05:12:24] lukas: you are from Poland? [05:12:33] Kubu: ah ok. I see. for me making just a decentralised p2p-filesharing network seemed a bit, well.. missing some points ;-) but it's easier ofcourse. [05:12:47] Kubu: and maybe needed aswell. [05:12:47] Kubu: no we are all from mars [05:12:51] :P [05:13:11] we were born from nasas mars robot. [05:13:19] that's why we all think so alike. [05:13:32] programmed from the start. [05:13:40] scrdcow: pioneer one! :) do you know it? [05:13:45] some1 kidnapped us, and we builded rbose as a cover project, inside we plan the flight back home [05:13:46] blergh.. need sleep. ok thx buy [05:13:49] lol jk [05:13:49] Kubu: it? [05:13:50] :) [05:14:07] a P2P funded series about a guy from Mars in a capsule :D [05:14:17] Kubu, yes [05:14:35] lukas: ok then, we are neighbors :) [05:14:39] Kubu: never heard of. what's it's name? [05:14:59] scrdcow: pioneer one google it [05:15:01] (or you are managing me to do one? ;-) ) [05:15:05] aah pioneer one... [05:15:16] yeah, and we are separated efficiently [05:15:20] it's CC licensed [05:15:22] thought you maybe wanted me to pioneer one ;-) [05:15:36] and funded by donations ... [05:15:51] found it on friendly vodo <3 [05:16:02] !tz mars [05:16:04] DNS, The time in Mars, Rivnens'ka oblast, Ukraine is Sun Jan 16 06:16:02 AM 2011 (UTC+2000) [05:16:04] vodo yup, great thing :) [05:16:11] 0_o [05:16:29] I want to watch more cc stuff, and listen to more cc music. and hav a nice archive and share that seperately from the rest so as people can easily see it's free content. [05:16:31] oh, people do space missions out of a gift, who would think of it.... [05:16:43] err.. free .. what is the correct rms-approved word here ? ;-) [05:16:43] jk :| [05:16:48] :| [05:17:03] scrdcow: rms would say shrabale :D [05:17:15] "free" includes the 4 freedoms [05:17:23] *** DNS is now known as ET [05:17:32] shareable? but I mean another word for "content" [05:17:35] * ET shows a glowing finger [05:17:42] *** ET is now known as DNS [05:17:45] scrdcow: do you know about jamendo then? [05:17:49] * scrdcow shows his glowstick [05:17:52] Kubu: yes [05:17:54] :o [05:18:07] jamendo for music, vodo for movies :) [05:18:21] Kubu: but actually haven't used it much since it's starting days when it was only this gnome app. [05:18:29] Kubu: but I should use it more. [05:18:45] scrdcow: I'm recently hooked on Professor Kliq ... electronic music [05:18:54] CC of course :) [05:18:54] scrdcow, i deleted and removed all the non-free music from my home, don't plan go back to it ever [05:18:59] just need to spring clean my drive first and make a solid organising of the structure. [05:19:00] http://rbose.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Music [05:19:01] URL Title: Music - RBOSE [05:19:31] lukas: me too! I listen only to CC now, not even radio in my car :D [05:19:39] :D [05:19:39] lukas: haha, a great move. I wish I could do the same but, it's hard for me being so hardcore.. tons of non-free stuff I really love and having a hard time parting from. [05:20:25] yea i do dig a lot of old records which arent cc :| [05:20:28] http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1880/studentx.jpg [05:20:35] but i love cc culture [05:20:39] lukas: the most important thing for me is to support sharable content if I can, and not giving money to non-free stuff in any way possible. [05:21:14] scrdcow: exactly ... I've spend several times more money on 'free' music then on non-free in my entire life [05:21:25] I have not thou. [05:21:51] the problem is my economic status has never been that great, atleast not the last years when more cc has sprung up. [05:21:54] cc content* [05:22:08] I've dontaed to pioneer one, and some artists on jamendo and stuff [05:22:43] I hope more people would do that [05:22:50] I had to live cheaply and save money for more than a year to buy my new computer. a beast thou. so I hope it will last long. [05:23:44] (living on welfare) [05:24:28] scrdcow, it will all change, there is growing number of people who see no reason in restricting distribution of their works and drive development by scarcity [05:24:47] lukas: yup, i hope so ... [05:24:54] I have donated to some movies thou. the problem is that alot of people use paypal, and I have always hated paypal. nowadays there are some other alternatives used. but still. much is paypal. [05:25:06] lukas: there is no reason for any artificial restrictions [05:25:17] lukas: in digital world :P [05:25:30] lukas: yes, my vision is (learning to dj) and dj psytrance, good psytrance, only free stuff a complete set, 2-4h long :-D [05:25:50] lukas: I see alot of old psytrance acts releasing older stuff free. so maybe a goa set is possible soon ;-) [05:26:31] people need to spend more money on 'free' content to attract artists :) [05:26:36] Kubu, how one proton of matter differs from another one? how the atoms differ from each other? how the elements? [05:26:46] lukas: the problem is, you want good stuff, not just "it's crap, but atleast its free!!!! :-DDDD". there is some limits you can bare, but still. [05:27:03] lukas: uhm? I do not want to go there again :) [05:27:42] http://www.ektoplazm.com/section/free-music [05:27:44] URL Title: Free Music at Ektoplazm - Free Music Portal and Psytrance Netlabel [05:27:47] scrdcow: yeah, the good artists get seduced by higher profits made by non-free stuff [05:28:16] scrdcow: that's why we need to pay for free stuff :) [05:28:27] Kubu, so you probably will excuse me that i will not take that invitation into claim and believe that "only digital and physical" [05:28:47] lukas: sure sure :) [05:28:47] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Quit: Leaving) [05:28:48] -|UFO|- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Quit: Leaving) [05:28:58] not* physical [05:29:05] Kubu: I don't agree actually. but it depens. for psytrance I think it's the complete opposite, the great stuff isn't the more commercial psytrance. and the non-commercial has nothing to lose on releasing free. they don't sell records. they only play gigs etc and even that can be hard to make a living on in the psytrance scene. it's easier with techno, more money in techno. [05:29:41] scrdcow: may be ... depends on your tastes [05:29:49] Kubu: I prefer to pay with other stuff than money. if it's possible. I prefer to pay buy doing. but ofcourse it only works with local people, people around me. [05:30:14] Kubu: yes [05:30:33] Kubu: I don't have much for people doing stuff to get money, then they are doing it wrong. [05:30:46] Kubu: I understand the need for money. but it shouldn't be the driving force. [05:30:49] imo [05:30:51] if you think that the only value in your life is the one which comes with money, they you can be seduced, but when you discover other values then you don't go into shit [05:31:05] yeah. [05:31:28] your true inner music comes out. not shaped by what will sell the most, hit the most listeners etc. [05:31:38] just make what feels right, sounds good etc, interesting music. [05:32:16] exactly, and you hear that by listening to it, it's just amzing :) [05:32:32] but it can be hard, maybe you love to do one thing. but you have to do it in a certain way to make a living off it. and you rather do that than not doing it at all. [05:32:47] i know [05:32:48] I would neve rdo that, for ex. code proprietari software (no, i'm not a coder, but for example). [05:32:57] I would take a job as a janitor or whatnot. [05:33:19] scrdcow: exactly ... you can either appeal to masses with unspecific vague tunes or you can appeal to less people much stronger ;) [05:33:21] lukas: yes, you can hear that most often. [05:34:07] scrdcow, I know what you mean here to, you don't need then to cheat other people, even if you are cheated you don't play the cheat game [05:34:15] ah nice. chicking ektoplazm, there is like one release every one or two days :-D [05:34:20] maybe a week between. [05:34:33] lukas: yes [05:34:54] another interesting CC work I'm waiting for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-j3ulgTxWo [05:34:55] You4Tube 2[Title] God is in The Neurons - teaser 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:00:59 2[Views] 11726 2[Rating] 4.71 2[Uploaded] 2010-12-07 2[Description] Follow me (Reese) to stay up to date with the evolution of God is in The Neurons http://twitter.com/Reese015 Music in the trailer at the end is by Professor Kliq http://www.ProfessorKliq.com [05:36:06] lukas: trying to play the gift economy game, even thou it can be harder sometimes, it will attract the right people to you and togehter you make it easier. can lover you costs etc etc. atleast for yourself and people around you it can feel nicier. the problem is it can be a closed group not reaching out as much to others. [05:36:16] lower* [05:36:49] I have to write stuff down... [05:36:53] scrdcow, we will change that for better too :D [05:37:03] lukas: change what? [05:38:13] (but you can use internet to reach out, so it's easier nowadays) [05:38:16] this way of thinking and leading your own life has a tremendous potential, because everyone can share everything what we want and get what other people want to share, i think we will get much more people into this [05:38:59] I'm in favor of gift economy but not without money :) essentially I would not require anyone to pay but expect people who enjoy what I do to pay ... just like donations to CC content, you don't have to contribute but you should if you like it and can ... [05:39:31] I had this teacher in humanecology (not sure if that is the correct term in english?) it's a cross-academia-discipline anyways. she was part of the green wave of sweden in the 70's. but felt she couldn't reach out to as much people living on here farm etc. so she switched to being a teacher. nowadays, maybe she didn't have to switch because of the net? [05:39:45] lukas: ah yes. [05:41:18] Kubu, i really don't get it... [05:41:27] lukas: :) [05:41:37] are you saying that there should be a monopoly for issuing money? [05:41:45] lukas: it's kind of a transition period if you will ... [05:41:57] lukas: an intermediate step [05:42:14] lukas: after I see that can work I'll try no money ;) [05:42:30] Kubu: well. as I see it... what I do for myself.. I dont's say no to donations. I sometimes bake cupcakes and give away for free in our local non-profit shop, with a donation bowl close buy. it goes ronud. and it's nice, but I don't _expect_ of people that thay have to give money. I don't really need it. but they can if they want to. [05:42:53] Kubu: but I think what they can do that is even greater is give themself instead to someone else in return. [05:43:02] scrdcow: yeah, something like that [05:43:40] but if you have a monopoly you cannot have a market, a market by definition (and from what i see here we try to pay attention to words) cannot exist without 3rd party, so i wonder what the heck we are talking about? [05:43:42] lukas: well, no ... not monopoly [05:43:44] Kubu: I don't think all artists etc can live on donations. it will work for some, but not all. but I don't think that is bad, if we all can help to lower our income need, we don't need as much. [05:43:54] ok, then what? [05:44:06] lukas: nobody should posses the authority to just print money ... that defeats the purpose of it [05:44:37] ok, so we can print as much we want, each of us? [05:44:39] Kubu: but dontaions for transition period is nice. that's how I see it also. [05:44:50] scrdcow: that depends on how many people give donations ... ideally, you would earn more by donations than commercially [05:45:22] lukas: no ... there is a certain amount and nobody can print any more [05:45:26] Kubu: it is possible yes. but there is no need if you can lower your income bu using others gifts in the economy. [05:45:30] lukas: that's ideal money [05:45:40] Kubu: you don't need to make as much out of it. you can just make it. [05:46:01] ?? people [05:46:02] people: A social network diagram for RBOSE IRC, and a list of RBOSE contributors you can find here: http://rbose.org/wiki/People [05:46:09] scrdcow: but then you are not going to convince others to switch to free :) [05:46:18] heh [05:46:25] i will give some money to Kubu, he will give to scrdcow, scrdcow he will give to DNS, and DNS will give it back to me, and we all will be reach! or this is really so stupid as it sounds [05:47:18] Kubu: I will convince them in that they get control of their own time. they can use free society stuff (software, music, movies etc) to support a great cause and use great software etc. and some piracy on top of that and freeganism and they are set ;-) [05:47:24] why we cannot do the same what we do for others within just physical realm?! with no virtual points [05:47:46] *** Quits: Billll6 (billll@RBOSE-7s4f83.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [05:47:50] lukas: for that to happen I would have to do something you like, scrdcow something I like ... etc. on the end of the cycle everyone did something some other liked - that's why moeny is useful! ;) [05:47:52] `fortune [05:47:54] <|UFO|> Viper: Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves possess. -- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"] [05:48:04] Kubu: ofcourse I don't do it like that. I just get engaded in my way of trying to live and try to find likeminded people. the rest.. not so much. [05:48:06] 0_o [05:48:23] Kubu, yea, in another words you would like each of us to not have something [05:48:28] *** Joins: Billll6 (billll@RBOSE-7s4f83.res.rr.com) [05:48:57] thanks man :| [05:48:59] lukas: huh? [05:49:21] lukas: can you describe the thought process that lead you to that? :) [05:49:51] Money = control [05:49:59] every transactions is an exchange between those who have and those who don't [05:50:00] what is it with this guy and the smileys [05:50:01] the one that have most Money is controlling [05:50:09] Kubu: but you still have to do stuf others like, or nobody will buy your creations (or donate to you). [05:50:15] Viper: nooo, here we go again ... let's cut it loose right now :D [05:50:30] you create more crap get more money [05:50:59] `fortune [05:50:59] <|UFO|> Viper: Q: What do you call the money you pay to the government when you ride into the country on the back of an elephant? A: A howdah duty. [05:51:25] yes, were are trembling back again... [05:52:14] `fortune [05:52:16] <|UFO|> Viper: Q: What looks like a cat, flies like a bat, brays like a donkey, and plays like a monkey? A: Nothing. [05:52:26] lol [05:52:27] heh [05:52:47] wise words :) [05:53:12] `fortune [05:53:14] <|UFO|> Viper: You will have a long and boring life. [05:53:19] haha [05:53:33] `fortune [05:53:34] <|UFO|> scrdcow: You love peace. [05:53:38] \o/ [05:53:55] wow [05:53:57] Viper, it will be long at least :D [05:53:57] ok, off for me ... see ya [05:54:01] `fortune [05:54:02] <|UFO|> Viper: In the first place, God made idiots; this was for practice; then he made school boards. -- Mark Twain [05:54:04] ok, thx bai! nite [05:54:09] see ya :) [05:54:15] Bye Kubu [05:54:47] `fortune [05:54:47] <|UFO|> Viper: You own a dog, but you can only feed a cat. [05:55:24] `fortune [05:55:25] <|UFO|> Viper: I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. -- Mark Twain [05:57:27] Q: What looks like money, burns like paper, destroys more like napalm and stinks like nothing else? A: an illusion created by some retarted bankers [05:57:29] :x [05:57:48] nice :D [05:58:06] :D [05:58:48] Do you have not retarted banks? [05:58:58] lol [05:59:29] * Viper 10î’Ł  îšť 14Dj Kewlaid - Ice Blue Vocal Trance Mix (005).mp3 1077% 79m28s 10 & 14Unknown artist 10î’ť3Exaile10î’ž [06:07:13] *** Joins: ciacon (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) [06:07:40] *** Quits: ciacon_ (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [06:10:01] *** Joins: Nanos (nanos.org.uk@RBOSE-h23kep.dyn.plus.net) [06:33:28] http://www.freechargecontroller.org/index.php?title=Main_Page [06:33:30] URL Title: Free Charge Controller - Free Charge Controller [06:36:04] http://www.cubespawn.com/ [06:36:05] URL Title: Home Page [06:38:11] http://harkopen.com/projects/beagleboard-xm [06:38:12] URL Title: BeagleBoard xM | harkopen.com [06:44:57] The charge controller looks useful for my solar vehicle. [06:51:20] http://pandaboard.org/ [06:51:21] URL Title: Pandaboard [06:54:36] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vEHMBKKZwI&feature=player_embedded [06:54:38] You4Tube 2[Title] PandaBoard -- Shopping List 2[Category] People 2[Duration] 0:01:39 2[Views] 2134 2[Rating] 3.67 2[Uploaded] 2010-10-13 2[Description] This video has no description. [07:00:04] you can build a notebook from that lol [07:03:05] :D [07:12:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Jw9AeR3Jk [07:12:29] You4Tube 2[Title] Ubuntu 10.10 Booting on PandaBoard 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:01:06 2[Views] 6667 2[Rating] 4.33 2[Uploaded] 2010-10-13 2[Description] Video shows Ubuntu 10.10 Booting on PandaBoard More info: http://pandaboard.org [07:28:43] http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8015266513754477004#docid=-881707118964459572 [07:28:44] URL Title: Monarch III (45min) [07:31:43] oh christ not your solar vehicle again [07:31:48] don't you have that thing finished? [07:40:06] Grits sound like microwave [07:48:25] *** Joins: ciacon_ (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) [07:49:01] *** Quits: ciacon (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [08:24:55] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-hocik6.pool.telekom.hu) [08:31:31] *** Quits: faresz (faresz@RBOSE-8h0rsa.catv.broadband.hu) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [08:57:38] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-hocik6.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [08:58:26] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-hocik6.pool.telekom.hu) [09:10:18] *** Joins: faresz (faresz@RBOSE-8h0rsa.catv.broadband.hu) [09:21:32] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-0v7.ve1.28.41.IP) [10:07:36] *** Joins: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) [10:17:38] *** Quits: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [10:17:48] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-hocik6.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [10:35:26] *** Quits: Nanos (nanos.org.uk@RBOSE-h23kep.dyn.plus.net) (Quit: Leaving.) [10:41:17] *** Quits: DNS777 (alien@kidnapped.from.mars) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [10:42:56] *** Quits: |UFO| (supybot@Unidentified.Flying.Object) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [10:42:56] *** Quits: kalken (default@RBOSE-jieh1j.bredband.comhem.se) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [10:42:56] *** Quits: Billll6 (billll@RBOSE-7s4f83.res.rr.com) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [10:42:56] *** Quits: SoNeta (piespy@rbose.IRC.people) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [10:42:56] *** Quits: Viper (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [10:44:47] *** Joins: Billll6 (billll@RBOSE-7s4f83.res.rr.com) [10:44:47] *** Joins: kalken (default@RBOSE-jieh1j.bredband.comhem.se) [10:44:47] *** Joins: SoNeta (piespy@rbose.IRC.people) [10:44:47] *** Joins: Viper (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) [10:44:47] *** Joins: |UFO| (supybot@Unidentified.Flying.Object) [10:59:00] *** Quits: missboty (MissBoty@shakes.her.ass.for.RBOSE) (Quit: Connection reset by peer) [10:59:01] *** Joins: missboty (MissBoty@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [10:59:02] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o missboty [11:03:36] *** Joins: ciacon (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) [11:03:58] *** Quits: ciacon_ (quassel@RBOSE-9ugo3f.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [11:08:45] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-0v7.ve1.28.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [11:11:33] *** Joins: diogenez (Administrator@RBOSE-5ej9vi.ph.cox.net) [11:13:26] was ot a flop ? [11:13:31] i called it [11:13:43] they tried to raise money , right [11:13:49] and it hindered the release audience [11:15:41] http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_712be9d1-e68d-5baa-907c-f533ca8e39fe.html [11:15:42] URL Title: Governor proposes 20% cut in funding for universities [11:15:58] http://onebigtorrent.org/download.php?id=10513&d=1 [11:15:59] URL Title: OneBigTorrent.org [11:25:54] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [11:40:04] *** Joins: Lundburgerr-TZM (lundburgerr@RBOSE-h1sso7.cust.bredband2.com) [11:48:54] *** Joins: Emerik (qwebirc@RBOSE-m14i2g.catv.broadband.hu) [11:49:25] *** Quits: Emerik (qwebirc@RBOSE-m14i2g.catv.broadband.hu) (Quit: Page closed) [12:12:56] *** Joins: kman (erik@RBOSE-89kp3r.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [12:19:30] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-hocik6.pool.telekom.hu) [12:53:48] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [12:59:17] Cob homes [12:59:20] A love story < [12:59:20] http://www.google.se/images?q=cob+homes&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=sv&tab=wi&biw=1426&bih=925 [12:59:21] URL Title: cob homes - Sök pĂĄ Google [13:09:42] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@RBOSE-r1m.ufh.228.195.IP) [13:09:59] -|UFO|- Julius-ZM has joined on FREENODE [13:10:01] -|UFO|- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Julius-ZM [13:40:00] hi Everyone [13:43:15] lukas: Hey :-) [13:44:48] hi Julius :) [13:46:48] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-qk7.06n.30.41.IP) [14:01:49] *** Joins: JsonBot (jsb@RBOSE-r1m.ufh.228.195.IP) [14:02:04] *** Parts: JsonBot (jsb@RBOSE-r1m.ufh.228.195.IP) [14:31:08] *** Joins: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-lrfah1.cust.tele2.se) [14:42:05] *** Joins: warpi (warpi@RBOSE-1shru8.mobileonline.telia.com) [14:43:15] *** Joins: Mecha3 (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [14:46:13] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [14:46:37] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [14:47:40] *** Quits: Mecha3 (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [14:55:16] http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5809845 [14:55:17] URL Title: Sci.Fi.Science.S02E01.Earth.2.0.HDTV.XviD-GNARLY (download torrent) - TPB [14:56:31] *** Joins: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) [15:00:43] *** Quits: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [15:01:59] diogenez: Is that the full movie in it's entirety? [15:11:48] *** Quits: Haseldow (haseldow@RBOSE-7qc.rca.182.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [15:12:03] season 2 episode 1 [15:13:38] *** Joins: Haseldow (haseldow@RBOSE-8gq.jc3.182.93.IP) [15:15:01] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-qted39.bredband.skanova.com) [15:15:17] -|UFO|- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [15:15:18] -|UFO|- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Changing host) [15:15:20] -|UFO|- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [15:15:21] -|UFO|- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [15:15:34] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy [15:15:36] URL Title: Post-left anarchy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [15:30:58] *** Quits: Haseldow (haseldow@RBOSE-8gq.jc3.182.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [15:33:00] *** Joins: Haseldow (haseldow@RBOSE-c2mipc.ipredate.net) [15:42:44] *** Joins: Mecha3 (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [15:45:33] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [15:48:25] *** Quits: Lundburgerr-TZM (lundburgerr@RBOSE-h1sso7.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [15:56:32] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-qk7.06n.30.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [16:00:49] *** Joins: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-lik.ina.65.217.IP) [16:07:03] *** Quits: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-lik.ina.65.217.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [16:08:35] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-7g2qod.pool.t-online.hu) [16:21:24] http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/recentfeatures/ideology.php [16:21:25] URL Title: CWC Texts : Recent Features : Against Ideology? [16:23:25] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-2psoom.adsl.alicedsl.de) [16:23:42] -|UFO|- Kebap23 has joined on FREENODE [16:24:00] Once both sides get over the enemy image and recognize each other’s needs, it’s amazing how the next part, which is looking for strategies to meet everyone’s needs, becomes pretty easy by comparison. It’s getting past the enemy images; that’s the hard work. [16:32:45] *** Joins: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) [16:32:45] *** Joins: Diago_ (Diago@RBOSE-njq.nq9.84.186.IP) [16:37:48] there are way more than 2 sides though [16:39:32] of course [16:39:44] i mean in any specific 1 on 1 conflict in that case [17:01:57] http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs056.snc6/168629_484457427586_565542586_6463269_6062168_s.jpg [17:02:40] *** Joins: Absalom (Absalom@RBOSE-mofh94.bredband.comhem.se) [17:03:04] *** Quits: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-7g2qod.pool.t-online.hu) (Quit: ) [17:05:59] http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs056.snc6/168629_484457427586_565542586_6463269_6062168_n.jpg [17:06:10] bigger one [17:06:50] lol [17:06:56] !slap Caly [17:06:57] ACTION slaps Caly a bit around #RBOSE with a GNU/Linux Live CD [17:07:10] sorry for the thumb... http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs056.snc6/168629_484457427586_565542586_6463269_6062168_n.jpg [17:07:27] oops, dp4 [17:07:29] =_= [17:07:31] *dp [17:07:35] *** Joins: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-lik.ina.65.217.IP) [17:08:17] *** Quits: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-lik.ina.65.217.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [17:13:35] *** Joins: bul4zt (qwebirc@RBOSE-fgmj6n.pools.arcor-ip.net) [17:23:32] http://www.kickasstorrents.com/end-civ-resist-or-die-2010-t5046266.html [17:23:33] URL Title: Download END:CIV - Resist or Die - 2010 Torrent - KickassTorrents.com [17:26:14] hi bul4zt [17:26:38] wir habe auch einen deutschen channel: /join #rbose.de [17:26:40] :D [17:27:09] !poke bul4zt [17:27:12] ACTION pokes bul4zt in #RBOSE a bit with some positive vibrations [17:27:42] *** Quits: bul4zt (qwebirc@RBOSE-fgmj6n.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [17:28:51] * DNS didnt know that missboty has so strong vibrations [17:29:19] !8ball you feel strong today? [17:29:19] DNS, my 8-ball says: eh no. [17:29:21] probably caused resonance [17:29:30] ;) [17:29:41] !8ball was is just a resonance? [17:29:43] DNS, my 8-ball says: no, this makes no sense. [17:29:48] lol [17:30:13] haha [17:35:02] *** Joins: Merc (Merc-ZM@RBOSE-bfup2m.unitymediagroup.de) [17:36:32] hi merc [17:44:40] *** Quits: Merc (Merc-ZM@RBOSE-bfup2m.unitymediagroup.de) (Quit: www.rbose.org ;)) [17:46:09] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [17:46:36] *** Quits: Billll6 (billll@RBOSE-7s4f83.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [17:47:16] *** Joins: Billll6 (billll@RBOSE-7s4f83.res.rr.com) [17:47:32] *** Joins: Emerik (qwebirc@RBOSE-m14i2g.catv.broadband.hu) [17:48:55] *** Quits: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: ) [17:49:02] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [17:51:27] *** Quits: warpi (warpi@RBOSE-1shru8.mobileonline.telia.com) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [17:56:56] *** Quits: faresz (faresz@RBOSE-8h0rsa.catv.broadband.hu) (Connection closed) [17:57:15] *** Joins: faresz (faresz@RBOSE-8h0rsa.catv.broadband.hu) [17:58:52] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-3rc.fof.29.41.IP) [18:12:38] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@rbose.org) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [18:13:27] -|UFO|- Kebap23 has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [18:15:32] *** Joins: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-sn51bk.opticon.hu) [18:16:39] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-b44qaq.adsl.alicedsl.de) [18:17:24] -|UFO|- Kebap23 has joined on FREENODE [18:37:10] http://1787network.com/?p=295 [18:37:11] URL Title: Whistleblowers home raided by armed FDLE agents : Liberty Underground Show [18:40:00] http://farmwars.info/?p=4913 [18:40:02] URL Title: The USDA's Organic Deception | Farm Wars [18:41:57] http://www.naturalnews.com/030828_GMOs_Wikileaks.html [18:41:58] URL Title: Wikileaks cable reveals U.S. conspired to retaliate against European nations if they resisted GMOs [18:46:19] it's crazy, i read about that last mentioned leak a while ago [18:47:23] *** Quits: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-sn51bk.opticon.hu) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [18:48:06] *** Joins: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-sn51bk.opticon.hu) [18:50:36] *** Joins: Shaku (Shaku@RBOSE-sn51bk.opticon.hu) [18:51:32] *** Quits: Shaku (Shaku@RBOSE-sn51bk.opticon.hu) (Quit: Leaving) [18:52:12] *** Quits: Shakuras (qwebirc@RBOSE-sn51bk.opticon.hu) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [18:53:29] *** Quits: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: ) [18:55:45] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-3rc.fof.29.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [18:55:47] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-mcj.9bv.28.41.IP) [18:59:30] *** Joins: warpi (warpi@RBOSE-487gfh.cust.telenor.se) [19:03:24] *** Quits: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [19:03:53] *** Joins: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) [19:04:59] *** Quits: enive (qwebirc@RBOSE-hjj.qfv.99.109.IP) (Quit: Page closed) [19:07:57] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-mcj.9bv.28.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [19:12:03] *** Quits: Emerik (qwebirc@RBOSE-m14i2g.catv.broadband.hu) (Quit: Page closed) [19:13:01] *** Quits: warpi (warpi@RBOSE-487gfh.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [19:20:03] *** Quits: Kubu (quassel@RBOSE-992up3.95-102-176.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [19:33:02] *** Joins: warpi (warpi@RBOSE-1shru8.mobileonline.telia.com) [19:33:21] -|UFO|- tropology has quit FREENODE (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:34:47] http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs079.ash2/37291_136419196384125_128484317177613_314414_4091314_n.jpg [19:34:55] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [19:37:55] *** Quits: Mecha3 (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [19:41:56] -|UFO|- tropology has joined on FREENODE [19:42:21] *** Joins: br55t (qwebirc@RBOSE-fgmj6n.pools.arcor-ip.net) [19:42:35] *** Quits: br55t (qwebirc@RBOSE-fgmj6n.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: Page closed) [19:48:13] guys, i put in gobby some stuff we talked about during the meeting related to new website, it's not much but please add there some feedback when you get some time [19:50:32] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [19:54:19] hi [19:54:36] Viper: are you here? [19:54:39] hi Fodi69 :) [19:55:29] *** Joins: warpi_ (warpi@RBOSE-t26i1s.mobileonline.telia.com) [19:57:21] *** Quits: warpi (warpi@RBOSE-1shru8.mobileonline.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [20:07:53] *** Joins: duke (qwebirc@RBOSE-c49b5c.pool.digikabel.hu) [20:08:03] *** Quits: duke (qwebirc@RBOSE-c49b5c.pool.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Page closed) [20:21:16] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) [20:31:18] *** Joins: warpi__ (warpi@RBOSE-dfc3rg.mobileonline.telia.com) [20:32:18] *** Quits: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [20:32:19] -|UFO|- Julius-ZM has quit FREENODE (Remote host closed the connection) [20:33:01] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@RBOSE-r1m.ufh.228.195.IP) [20:33:11] *** Quits: warpi_ (warpi@RBOSE-t26i1s.mobileonline.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [20:33:19] -|UFO|- Julius-ZM has joined on FREENODE [20:33:20] -|UFO|- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Julius-ZM [20:40:26] *** Joins: expectopatronum (qwebirc@RBOSE-gmk.kos.138.189.IP) [20:40:37] hi [20:40:58] y0 [20:41:17] y0y0y0y0y0y0 [20:45:57] *** Joins: bujti79 (qwebirc@RBOSE-bl5ndm.catv.broadband.hu) [20:46:29] http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/20-shocking-new-economic-records-that-were-set-in-2010 [20:46:30] URL Title: 20 Shocking New Economic Records That Were Set In 2010 [20:46:42] hi there :) [20:49:34] http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=8936 [20:49:35] URL Title: DUDE, WHERES MY JOB? (Featured Article) « The Burning Platform [20:50:51] 17.1% of employed people in U.S. are employed in gov O_o [20:51:17] more is only in trade according to this data [20:51:30] * BranManFloMore laughs at the title of the article. [20:51:47] in production sector only 8.9% [20:53:30] "The most damning facts that can be garnered from the BLS data relate to how we’ve become a nation of bankers, real estate agents, accountants, lawyers, tax specialists, and fast food fry cooks." [20:53:54] :| [20:56:03] did u know theres a reprap that builds houses? [20:56:09] similar to a reprap [20:58:18] expectopatronum, you mean a 3d printer? [20:58:27] sort of [20:58:30] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEA2HaFqsVQ&feature=player_embedded [20:58:31] You4Tube 2[Title] Contour Crafting 2[Category] Howto 2[Duration] 0:04:42 2[Views] 8008 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2007-01-18 2[Description] Animation of Contour Crafting in Whole House construction [21:02:05] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEA2HaFqsVQ&feature=player_embedded [21:02:06] You4Tube 2[Title] Contour Crafting 2[Category] Howto 2[Duration] 0:04:42 2[Views] 8008 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2007-01-18 2[Description] Animation of Contour Crafting in Whole House construction [21:02:35] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7r-qlKkUo&feature=related [21:02:37] You4Tube 2[Title] Contour Crafting 2[Category] Howto 2[Duration] 0:04:50 2[Views] 20858 2[Rating] 4.86 2[Uploaded] 2006-04-27 2[Description] 'Daily Planet' on Contour Crafting --or how to build a complete house -including plumbing and electricity- in about a day with robotic technology. [21:09:31] this one is cooler [21:09:34] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yv-IWdSdns [21:09:35] You4Tube 2[Title] Why Design Now?: Contour Crafting 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:03:45 2[Views] 9297 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2010-05-08 2[Description] Why? Contour Crafting is a construction technology that potentially reduces energy use and emissions by using a rapid-prototype or 3-D printing process to fabricate large components. Comprised of robotic arms and extrusion nozzles, a computer-controlled gantry system m [21:09:45] they could add more arms to paint etc [21:11:19] Hi folks [21:13:11] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-nni.015.28.41.IP) [21:15:12] hi viper [21:15:15] did u see the links [21:15:17] ? [21:15:32] last one? [21:15:36] let me check it [21:17:22] interesting [21:19:19] *** Quits: expectopatronum (qwebirc@RBOSE-gmk.kos.138.189.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:20:20] *** Joins: expectopatronum (qwebirc@RBOSE-gmk.kos.138.189.IP) [21:20:40] did u see the link of cybersyn in chile? [21:22:30] umm [21:22:45] you mean last 4 links that you past? [21:22:56] yesterday [21:23:20] http://irevolution.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/project-cybersyn-chile-20-in-1973/ [21:23:22] URL Title: Project Cybersyn: Chile 2.0 in 1973 | iRevolution [21:23:51] yeah i see it [21:27:27] oh [21:27:38] i found a part of the zeitgeist movie, new onw [21:27:38] *** expectopatronum was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "zeitgeist movie" on this channel.) [21:28:03] *** Joins: expectopatronum_ (qwebirc@RBOSE-gmk.kos.138.189.IP) [21:31:34] If the patronus is kicked, I guess he got obliviated :D [21:31:40] wb expectopatronum_ [21:33:20] *** Quits: kman (erik@RBOSE-89kp3r.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:34:10] *** Quits: expectopatronum_ (qwebirc@RBOSE-gmk.kos.138.189.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [21:38:27] zeitgeist [21:40:49] *** Parts: bujti79 (qwebirc@RBOSE-bl5ndm.catv.broadband.hu) [21:52:43] https://sites.google.com/site/giffordloughner/home/mini-me [21:58:28] *** Joins: Irwine (Irwine@RBOSE-2lp.4qs.240.89.IP) [22:00:58] *** Quits: Irwine (Irwine@RBOSE-2lp.4qs.240.89.IP) (Quit: Leaving) [22:07:04] *** Joins: Mecha3 (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [22:09:58] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:14:43] *** Quits: warpi__ (warpi@RBOSE-dfc3rg.mobileonline.telia.com) (Quit: Lämnar) [22:14:55] `fortune [22:14:55] <|UFO|> Viper: Truth will out this morning. (Which may really mess things up.) [22:15:47] !8ball Truth will out this morning? [22:15:47] DNS, my 8-ball says: yap. [22:15:57] 0_o [22:17:03] lol [22:18:19] *** Quits: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: ) [22:20:14] !8ball is everybody sleeping? [22:20:16] DNS, my 8-ball says: sorry, but this sounds kinda strange. [22:20:39] DNS: nope [22:20:42] :> [22:20:58] * Caly spins: Promoe - Kkkampain [22:21:56] *** Joins: pax (pax@RBOSE-ut38gk.dip.t-dialin.net) [22:22:16] hi [22:22:26] y0y0y0 [22:22:44] moin dns [22:22:47] (: [22:22:51] m01n [22:29:18] hi pax :) [22:29:31] hey lukas [22:33:07] :) [22:33:12] `fortune [22:33:14] <|UFO|> Viper: Let him choose out of my files, his projects to accomplish. -- Shakespeare, "Coriolanus" [22:34:49] *** Parts: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [22:34:53] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [22:34:54] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCkX0KcNwrI [22:34:55] You4Tube 2[Title] Joss Stone "piracy is great" 2[Category] Music 2[Duration] 0:01:21 2[Views] 43472 2[Rating] 4.96 2[Uploaded] 2008-06-18 2[Description] Joss Stone "piracy is great" [22:34:58] :] [22:38:02] I think this Giffords woman is having parts of her brain transplanted into that little girl [22:38:42] a partial brain transplant could transfer the personality and most of the memories of one person into another [22:39:23] if you were going to do something like that you'd want to do it by age 40 because that's basically when the brain starts dying, they say [22:39:28] this Giffords woman was 40 [22:39:37] the kid was 9, the skull has stopped growing by that age [22:40:06] this could be a ruse to explain why they both just sort of vanished for a while into hospitals [22:40:26] Giffords' body will be released, quite possibly with the memories and personality of a 9 year old girl [22:40:36] umm [22:40:45] WHAT [22:40:58] why not just kill? [22:41:03] kill who [22:41:14] or give her some pills [22:41:17] who [22:41:18] so she stop thinking [22:41:28] Giffords [22:41:34] that's not the goal [22:41:56] the goal is to extend her life by cutting out parts of a healthy child's brain and transplanting Giffords' brain [22:42:11] only the parts government memory and personality [22:42:22] the child is probably a clone of Giffords [22:42:50] thats a bit too much work [22:43:07] what is [22:43:16] partial brain transplants? [22:43:47] make a clone and transplant [22:43:55] what if you want to live to be 120 [22:44:11] start over again at 9 years old [22:44:25] have the last 31 years of your life to do over [22:44:37] But you read that Grits? [22:44:54] https://sites.google.com/site/giffordloughner/home/mini-me [22:45:30] I think they prepped the little girl from birth so if they did transplant parts of her brain into Giffords' old body its memories wouldn't alarm people [22:45:45] they got the kid into the pretend government in the school [22:46:01] put her in beauty pageants at that young age [22:46:15] thats only image [22:49:07] loughner needs political prisoner support [22:49:09] either way they'd have to explain Giffords suddenly going into the hospital and coming out with a different personality [22:49:14] to get comisaries [22:49:15] etc [22:49:24] he was a ex zeitgeist just like us [22:49:30] he is a fallen brother locked up [22:49:59] why because somebody said he watched the movie once [22:50:01] ya Giffords is not going to be able to keep her Israeli support a secret now [22:50:12] Darkdancer banned him [22:50:16] from teamspeak [22:50:16] *** diogenez was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "teamspeak" on this channel.) [22:51:30] *** Joins: diogenez (Administrator@RBOSE-5ej9vi.ph.cox.net) [22:52:44] what is on RBOSE adjenda [22:52:55] haha that word filter is just ridiculous [22:53:09] "I got banned because I said this and that" [22:53:23] mumble ? [22:53:29] who is banned? [22:53:30] i need to get food [22:53:33] nobody [22:53:46] kicked for using tems related to voice chat [22:53:58] that is proprietary [22:54:21] yup :| [22:54:27] !windows [22:54:29] I can not help with that and i recommend to get GNU/Linux. Check: http://rbose.org/wiki/Free_OS [22:54:31] You are promoting a open communication platform? :P [22:54:33] i won in court a few days ago [22:54:38] they tried to sever my rights [22:54:44] i got reunification extention [22:54:56] but where freedom of speech doesn't seem to exist... [22:55:13] eXPerience is ok [22:55:16] Cyclo you can say fuck what els you need? hahaha [22:55:24] i mean i feel reclimation is as ok for me as free [22:55:37] because i am dependent on a certain worked owned wares [22:55:44] worker owned [22:56:13] in 2001 we had a certain level of digital freedom [22:56:44] dionenez btw thank you for "End Civ Resist or Die 2010" movie it was great! [22:56:54] *diogeneze [22:56:57] ya the maker thanked me for ripping it too [22:56:58] cute [22:57:05] Viper, kekek [22:57:11] the word I was looking for was: Counterproductive [22:57:12] :) [22:57:13] Stimulator [22:57:21] i saw that documentary also [22:57:26] Lopez i think is name is franklin [22:57:30] ya it was very good [22:57:38] we saw it a month ago where i live [22:57:57] native american kids who are growing their own traditional foods and serving it in their schools showed it at ASU [22:58:08] with Holy holy holy [22:58:11] cyclo what is conterproductive? [22:58:14] they got naked on stage and played music [22:58:16] any one interested here you can watch it on YT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0ErwcSlM8A&feature=player_embedded [22:58:17] You4Tube 2[Title] END:CIV - Resist or Die - documentary 1/5 2[Category] News 2[Duration] 0:15:00 2[Views] 478 2[Rating] 4.71 2[Uploaded] 2011-01-14 2[Description] ND:CIV examines our culture's addiction to systematic violence and environmental exploitation, and probes the resulting epidemic of poisoned landscapes and shell-shocked nations. Based in part on Endgame, the best-selling book by Derrick Jensen, END:CIV asks: "If you [22:58:19] it was awesom [22:58:41] "lets get free" they said [22:58:53] maybe i can find a video... [22:59:27] DNS, a word filter [22:59:42] Resistance Rising (with holy!holy!holy! [22:59:44] at least around here [22:59:47] the resistance rising tour [23:00:20] http://holyholyholysound.blogspot.com/ [23:00:21] URL Title: (A) [23:01:53] http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandid=926141 [23:01:54] URL Title: SoundClick artist: holy!holy!holy! - holy!holy!holy! is a gypsy influenced, anarchist/radical group of many musicians with many ideas and [23:02:30] *** Quits: Diago_ (Diago@RBOSE-njq.nq9.84.186.IP) (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~) [23:02:50] did anybody read [23:02:50] *** Joins: kman (erik@RBOSE-9ll4m8.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [23:02:51] http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/recentfeatures/ideology.php [23:02:52] URL Title: CWC Texts : Recent Features : Against Ideology? [23:02:58] Against Ideology [23:03:50] Cyclo: for me its more conterproductive to talk about this so called movement... because i cant see any progress, nothing just advertisements, movies, a centralized structure, no next step, no plan, just talk... we had here a lot talk about this "movement" nearly a year. what came out of it.... [23:03:58] or seen other submedia.tv pieces? [23:04:15] thanks diogenez :) [23:04:21] and disassociation with earth 2.0 people [23:04:27] submedia.tv rocks [23:04:35] http://rbose.org/wiki/RBOSE:General_disclaimer [23:04:36] URL Title: RBOSE:Policy - RBOSE [23:05:15] i want the new Phil Ochs documentary [23:05:19] that should be so good [23:05:28] he was the first to speak out against war at his time [23:05:32] a pioneer [23:05:56] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [23:06:05] talkin about the movement is basically a political agenda also a call for a hierichal and centralized structure [23:06:13] i mean pro talk [23:06:15] true [23:06:24] Cyclo: Let's join #TZM for further discussion about that movement, since we're forbid to do so in main :) [23:06:30] being decentralized and talking about networks of affinity makes more sense [23:06:39] coalitions [23:06:41] You have been kicked from #TZM by ChanServ (Sorry, but we are tired about the Zeitgeist Movement in RBOSE. Please do NOT promote centralized systems. http://rbose.org/wiki/RBOSE:General_disclaimer) [23:06:41] *** Kimsan was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "zeitgeist movement" on this channel.) [23:06:42] URL Title: RBOSE:Policy - RBOSE [23:06:53] *** Joins: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-lrfah1.cust.tele2.se) [23:06:55] haha [23:06:57] Come on. Really? [23:07:00] you mean FUCK [23:07:17] http://www.democracynow.org/2011/1/6/phil_ochs_the_life_and_legacy [23:07:18] URL Title: Phil Ochs: The Life and Legacy of a Legendary American Folk Singer [23:07:25] Kimsan, not even that seems to be ok... :( [23:07:31] use #off_topic or any other channel [23:07:44] why not #TZM ? [23:07:50] maybe we should make #nazi channel too? [23:07:52] regarded as one of the world’s most influential political musicians. Rising to fame in the 1960s, Ochs used his music to both chronicle and help mobilize the labor rights, civil rights and antiwar movements. A new documentary, Phil Ochs: There But for Fortune, has just been released [23:08:13] i aint a marching any more! [23:08:18] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-nni.015.28.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [23:08:25] how many here had parents drafted? [23:08:34] <- [23:08:38] DNS, I wasn't talking about the movements progress, I'm talking about the fact that you are censuring this communication platform, which is kind of counterproductive to RBOSE ? [23:08:46] Since RBOSE was promoted as a alternative [23:08:53] where things could be discussed [23:09:05] "without the risk of being banned for respectful disagreement" [23:09:12] it's fine movement as ideology ? [23:09:16] Cyclo none banned you [23:09:17] nobody is banned [23:09:18] sorry [23:09:22] its just stupid triggers [23:09:42] not banned, but I can't engage a conversation about that topic, since I'm getting kicked all the time [23:09:52] and I can't even join the supposed chan, #TZM :P [23:11:00] No one is banned, but you're enforcing a ban on topics, topics that some seem to wanna discuss about. [23:11:10] guys [23:11:13] and now you are force-inviting me to chans with a totally different objective: #FUKK_TZM [23:11:23] [23:03:50] Cyclo: for me its more conterproductive to talk about this so called movement... because i cant see any progress, nothing just advertisements, movies, a centralized structure, no next step, no plan, just talk... we had here a lot talk about this "movement" nearly a year. what came out of it.... [23:11:24] Cyclo i did it [23:11:28] not DNS [23:11:38] But you did not read and just part [23:11:40] The Mature behavior seems to be gone missing, I'm sorry to say [23:11:40] spying [23:11:43] so if you dont care dont ask [23:12:08] how are you feeling? [23:12:13] and what are you needing [23:12:16] i think we should better talk about projects in this channel [23:12:22] word DNS [23:12:26] DNS, but is it up to you to decide [23:12:29] what to talk about? [23:12:33] i mean actions [23:12:45] brainwashing by obama ? [23:12:53] yea are you interested in joining a project cyclo? [23:12:57] i just wonder [23:13:11] Or you are interedted in that crap only? [23:13:11] are you interested kimsan to join a rbose project? [23:13:19] DNS, We could talk about that later [23:13:26] let's focus on the subject [23:13:31] :) [23:13:32] Cycle or never [23:13:40] I don't think there's room for me, since I don't have any qualitative knowledge that might be of interest, DNS [23:13:53] i dont think so Kimsan [23:14:00] 0_o [23:14:18] everybody has some knowledge and skills i guess [23:14:30] you dont need to be a programmer to do stuff [23:14:48] TV told you that? I don't think there's room for me, since I don't have any qualitative knowledge that might be of interest, DNS [23:15:03] Viper, how about cooling down a bit... :) [23:15:25] Cyclo its fucking cold here please no more cooling LOL [23:15:27] Of course, but I (please inform me otherwise) don't think there's any project that my specific knowledge suits. [23:15:43] DNS, so there's no censuring removal in sight? [23:15:47] Just curious [23:15:49] it's good to know [23:16:04] Cyclo if you are interested only in that crap. I dont know if rbose is for you [23:16:14] it will be in sight if not 50% or more of the talk is about that lol [23:16:19] i mean man [23:16:25] why are here in RBOSE [23:16:36] and not in their chat [23:16:38] Viper: Your definition of crap is not universal. Please have that in mind. [23:17:02] because they are protectionists with power tripping egos? [23:17:02] DNS, you understand this censuring is kind of double moral standards, right? :( [23:17:09] *** Quits: Absalom (Absalom@RBOSE-mofh94.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: ) [23:17:16] well [23:17:21] <- amoral [23:17:34] DNS: Could you at least grant us the right to join the channel? (# T Z M) [23:17:34] *** Kimsan was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "T Z M" on this channel.) [23:17:44] np: Damu The Fudgemunk - Supply For Demand - Instrumental http://callz.no-ip.com:8000/listen.pls [23:17:45] *** Joins: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-lrfah1.cust.tele2.se) [23:17:54] Oh, fuck off. Someone has spend way to many hours on that bot. [23:18:04] yes, very productive [23:18:05] :) [23:18:19] i think bot said NO [23:18:21] lol [23:18:33] how do we gain ownership over resources is still the primary question [23:18:43] and how to distro them in egalitarian ways [23:18:45] #TZM [23:18:46] yep [23:19:04] join #FUKK_TZM [23:19:04] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-hocik6.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/) [23:19:08] ^^ [23:19:21] there will be no other #tzm channel [23:19:28] DNS, come on man... [23:19:28] ITS THERE FOR A FUCKING REASON YOU TARDS!!!!! [23:19:28] *** Caly was kicked by RBOSE (Turn caps lock OFF!) [23:19:35] lol [23:19:38] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) [23:19:39] And that trigger, too, Caly [23:19:39] jajajaj [23:19:40] :D [23:19:45] =P [23:19:47] I think I actually can understand the problem of people hanging around, not helping with any development and heaving problem with those kicks - seems like they don't have what to talk about beside the crap, only vacuum left for them, they don't get the issue that other people trying to work on something want to be more productive and not see crap over and over, but how one can think in terms of development when is helping with nothing :| [23:19:49] you guys feel somehow contributing to the project, know what we are working on? share our commitment and purpose, or just rbose is a nice place where one can fill better after doing nasty stuff in real life? [23:20:03] WORD [23:20:35] Word lukas ! [23:20:48] lukas: Silly presumptions and even more silly rhetorical questions about my life which you know nothing about. [23:21:25] as I've understood, RBOSE and T Z M share some common goals, that's why I'm here, I don't see any reasons why there can be collaboration, a word that is being widely used around here. [23:21:25] *** Cyclo was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "T Z M" on this channel.) [23:21:36] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [23:21:45] Cyclo you are wrong we do not share anything with that crap [23:21:45] Could you take away the invitation flag on #TZM-channel? [23:22:03] can't* [23:22:20] any one would like talk about crap move to #fukk_tzm [23:22:48] Viper: Ok, boss. [23:22:56] I did not make that decision [23:23:02] You seem to wish to [23:23:16] Kimsan, if i would know, i would not ask, it could be silly, true, but i'm more into doing something, trying to solve a problem, learning from mistakes. And i wonder about a second part of the question: can we do anything productive beside that talking about that crap? [23:23:34] Zeitgeist has it's own interface for talking, named Teamspeak [23:23:34] *** Fodi69 was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "teamspeak" on this channel.) [23:23:38] lukas, crap is your personal opinion [23:23:44] but who are you to decide what people should discuss ? [23:23:49] lukas: Your label isn't worth much to me, I don't consider it "crap" [23:24:05] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [23:24:13] oups [23:24:14] this is suppose to be a open communication platform ? [23:24:15] Who are you to restrain me from using my creativity [23:24:16] Fodi69 :) [23:24:23] lol [23:24:38] right now I see censuring and a lot of emotional actions [23:24:43] Viper: this is not a big pain to create a tzm channel [23:24:43] *** Fodi69 was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "tzm" on this channel.) [23:24:52] lol [23:24:55] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [23:25:00] bot is on fire [23:25:05] I reeeeeeeeeeeeealy love that bot [23:25:13] :-D [23:25:13] :D [23:25:25] !hug RBOSE [23:25:26] ACTION hugs RBOSE for Viper and hopes that RBOSE enjoys it :) [23:25:34] Cyclo, what are we guys working on together since last 10 months? Are we meeting each other on any dev meeting? In any project? [23:25:37] So, Viper, i say, we should create a normal tzm, not with fukk [23:25:48] and who wants to talk about that, then go to there [23:25:53] lukas, is that a requirement for being here ? [23:25:58] is that a good solution? [23:26:06] DNS: Could you please try to be the least mature and gain me access to #tzm? [23:26:07] Fodi69 we are not part of that group [23:26:21] I promise you, you won't see me talking about the said "crap" ever again in here [23:26:23] yes, please let us join that channel [23:26:34] Viper: i know, but here is also an ubuntu, a reprap, and many channel, which we are not part of [23:26:34] and we'll keep that topic over there. :) [23:26:36] Me and Cyclo will hold the discussion to the specific channel [23:26:36] `fortune [23:26:37] <|UFO|> Viper: Q: Know what the difference between your latest project and putting wings on an elephant is? A: Who knows? The elephant *might* fly, heh, heh... [23:27:00] Fodi69 not true we are working/using Ubuntu and reprap [23:27:23] hm [23:27:39] but a normal channel is not a big problem, or am i wrong? [23:27:41] Ask this guy to setup irc for the purpose you wish http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=peter%20joseph [23:27:42] URL Title: Urban Dictionary: peter joseph [23:28:33] aaaawww :DDDDD [23:29:03] lukas: Ask your local doctor for some growth hormones so you get help to mature. [23:29:05] Cyclo? [23:25] Cyclo, what are we guys working on together since last 10 months? Are we meeting each other on any dev meeting? In any project? [23:29:32] Viper, Cyclo> lukas, is that a requirement for being here ? [23:29:55] Do you know that we have gobby? [23:29:57] lol [23:29:57] so can we get rid of old smell, because we really wonder why you care so much about that stuff and not for anything we stand for as rbose? [23:30:21] Fodi69: yeah, it's a GOOD solution, because a bot is not personal. When people repetedly fail to see that promoting totalitarian cults here is not embrased by those having fought them for a year and drives ALL development in RBOSE, then there was a need to give those cultists a hint. [23:30:26] I'm interested in RBOSE as well [23:30:54] you guys almost only talk about this crap, there was a clear reason why we parted that cult a year ago [23:30:57] lukas: So one thing excludes another, huh [23:31:22] I don't see why it has to be a "one side choice" ? [23:31:35] if that isn't a us against them mentality, I don't know what is [23:31:53] i dont understand kimsan, why its needed to talk about the movement all the time in this channel here and waht came out of it? [23:32:00] You are seriously egocentric who thinks the change of the world will come exlusively through the RBOSE community. [23:32:04] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27265.htm [23:32:06] URL Title: The US/Israeli coup in Beirut : Information Clearing House: ICH [23:32:16] Lebanon got coup by US this week [23:32:20] did anybody notice [23:32:33] DNS, well, if you would just let us join the #TZM [23:32:33] DNS: I want to respect you, and so discuss it somewhere else [23:32:35] i suspect a war planned is about to start again [23:32:36] we have dozens of channels for specific topics, INCLUDING for folks wanting to air critisizm about those cults, and THEY use them, WHY can't the cultist respect that promotin the shit in main is not wanted? [23:32:37] Cyclo, it doesn't need, just you could not talk about that propaganda with us, that would be cool, bot only indicates interest, nothing more [23:32:49] you could use #off_topic too [23:33:03] be with that cult group if you wish as well [23:33:20] Answer that question you whiners [23:33:35] lukas, well, as I stated, a #TZM channel for us would be great then. Why is it such a problem arranging that? [23:33:38] Caly :) [23:33:41] yes [23:33:41] as I said before, if this is a open platform [23:33:46] FUCK_TZM [23:33:49] Caly: I'm trying to discuss it elsewhere. But they just disabled #tzm [23:33:50] who are you to decide what I can talk about? [23:34:05] if you can't create a IRC channel, how did you guys even succed in logging in today? [23:34:10] and how can you restrict me from creating a channel of a desired topic, like #TZM ? [23:34:11] BTW RBOSE is much longer banned in the m0vement since may last year [23:34:23] did you ever complained there about why we are banned? [23:34:27] really? [23:34:31] i am still banned [23:34:33] as a individual [23:34:38] they feel threatened by me [23:34:39] I'm here, and I'm not banned. :P [23:34:54] DNS, if you could answer my question that would be just perfect [23:34:57] Perhaps Tanktop need to know you are here then... [23:34:58] yea but its ok for you that rbose is banned there [23:35:01] they said tehy got a restraining order from working with my local chapter i dont believe them though [23:35:03] Cyclo: there is a teamspeak channel, where you can speak with T Z M members [23:35:03] *** Fodi69 was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "teamspeak" on this channel.) [23:35:07] or did you say anything against that? [23:35:12] *** Joins: Fodi69 (Fodi69@RBOSE-qfanjv.pool.telekom.hu) [23:35:14] jsut would liek to know [23:35:16] DNS: I hope you remember that me as well as Cyclo was stood in the front of supporting RBOSE and it's members at that time. [23:35:17] :p [23:35:19] Don't give me that. [23:35:21] guys, we are against central solutions, asking for money, cheating people, proprietary development, hierarchical structures, lack of any scientific paper when somebody claims to be using scientific method etc. why you guys support this crap? [23:35:23] that bot is really smart [23:35:47] i dont like being called names so i would not go there evne if i was not still banned [23:36:10] I say RESPECT those whoacctually made this plce happen, otherwise, set up your own fkn IRC network to spew totalitarian propaganda [23:36:27] well, do you want me to bring up any more discussions regarding RBOSE and TZM? because the way I see it, there's no interest in collaboration here at all, is it? [23:36:29] anything [23:36:35] I'm still waiting for an answer [23:36:41] nope [23:36:50] Viper: on the other hand, I'm in both projects, Zieieieitgeist translation and RBOSE too [23:36:50] regarding the freedom of choosing your own topics for discussions [23:37:01] I tricked the bot [23:37:02] we certainly have no interest in vcollaboratinng woth totalitarian sects, suprized? really= [23:37:03] ? [23:37:08] lol [23:37:33] lukas: I haven't said I'm in support of anything, nor have i "promoted" or "spammed" the "crap" your talking about. I'm just asking you to let me discuss WHAT I WANT with WHOM I WANT, instead of me throwing the "crap" that you call it in here, I really don't understand the problem. [23:37:34] every day again this shit [23:37:37] Cyclo, none interest in collaboration, i wish i would not spend any single minute with that cultology and linguistic programing [23:37:53] Kimsan: go to #offtopic then [23:38:03] so the rest of us don't have to see that shit. [23:38:07] Viper: maybe you shouldn't fight it, just create a normal channel, and let them speak [23:38:15] Caly: Where's the logic in that? [23:38:21] lukas, okey, then it's one way collaboration then, because I don't have any problem with collaboration even if I'm involved in TZM [23:38:21] *** Cyclo was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "tzm" on this channel.) [23:38:27] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [23:38:29] :D [23:38:32] :) [23:38:48] talking crap is not collaboration [23:38:52] sorry Cyclo [23:38:53] they were threatened by my non violent communication [23:39:00] Viper, that's your opinion. [23:39:05] called it .... [23:39:07] psycho babble [23:39:09] anyway [23:39:23] Viper: talking is very important [23:39:32] if a group who says that want humanistic basis is against non violent communication it points to a larger issue [23:39:37] we do NOT sit here ranting about various deveopment work or RBEF or Aurville or Python or RepRap or technocracy or blender etc etc etc, we keep that in SPECIFIC channels. [23:39:52] Caly: That's EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. [23:40:02] and no, we do NOT want to host channels for promoting totalitarianism. [23:40:15] I respect that you don't want to talk about T Z M in the main channel, so I ask you again; Why is it such a problem of just letting us in on #TZM where all the people interested in that subject can have open discussions? [23:40:15] Fodi69 talking is important [23:40:27] Cyclo bot said no [23:40:28] lol [23:40:30] You accuse me of spamming and promotion and direct me to a SPECIFIC channel. Well, you just disabled me to use that SPECIFIC channel. [23:40:34] political agendas, centralization and hierachy neither [23:40:54] because the people acctually MANAGING this network don't want to waste time helping promoters of totalitarian cults. [23:41:00] perfectly logic to me. [23:41:01] Kimsan, sure, there is plenty space all around, we just need to learn people developing rbose have problem with it, we don't want to be disturbed by that shit, our purposes differ, and you don't work with us so you can claim they are coherent, but it's not true from our perspective [23:41:10] READ the DISCLAIMER [23:41:16] Viper, that's not a good argument. ;) [23:41:28] I see your point lukas, Viper, DNS, but than you should write a bit about it [23:41:30] or reason [23:41:32] RBOSE is our leader any questions ask RBOSE [23:41:34] lol [23:41:41] Oh Guys! Here we go again! :-D [23:41:53] Hi Julius =) [23:42:00] so, in the DISCLAIMER there should be: You can talk about the following stuff but not about the following [23:42:02] the disclaimer is not saying anything in this case [23:42:07] Cyclo Kimsan you can PM each other talk about anything i dont care [23:42:12] its already in there cyclo [23:42:17] indeeed, they just cant let go and show any respect at all to us who work to keep RBOSE floating. [23:42:21] At least the channel became very active. :-D [23:42:23] http://rbose.org/wiki/RBOSE:General_disclaimer [23:42:25] URL Title: RBOSE:Policy - RBOSE [23:42:38] Cyclo Kimsan i show you descaimer before [23:42:42] But you did not read it [23:42:46] Viper: And I read it before, also. [23:42:54] What do you base that on? [23:42:57] Viper: obviously not... -_- [23:42:59] that cult fit in all NO parts [23:43:08] indeed [23:43:38] the key part is: "or any other forms of discrimination" [23:43:43] that is all [23:43:44] How about openly discussing topics that members find interesting then, is that a big NO too? [23:44:00] wake up and realize how that cult REALLY works. We care little about your skewed view of reality. [23:44:08] cool im out bye i got a call to fix a PC [23:44:08] you can talk about such as for example in #off_topic [23:44:11] that got some malware [23:44:19] Bye diogenez :) [23:44:19] or other channels if people want to hear [23:44:22] diogenez to the rescue [23:44:23] Cyclo: Julius: i think "# content being in conflict with transparency, decentralized and distributed, free and open source solutions " [23:44:29] Kimsan, What members? Why you need to put logo on your shoulder? Thats exactly the problem with have with it. [23:44:42] Me and Cyclo, to begin with. [23:44:46] Maybe others too? [23:44:46] "is a totally free environment without leaders where you can collaborate with people on projects all around the world. RBOSE is a collaboration platform for the development of free and open sourced solutions based on resource management and implementing them in our daily lives. Dedicated to openness, fairness and transparency in development we value diversity, creativity and sustainability. " [23:45:00] Members of what? Human specie? [23:45:21] Cyclo: read it again: " FREE AND OPEN sollutions" [23:45:26] the cult is NEITHER [23:45:29] FATTA! [23:45:41] lukas: Yeah yeah, trying to get some points by making this a semantic discussion... how original [23:45:45] You develop stuff and share it with others, or not. You don't need to be a member of anything to do so. [23:45:46] well, there seems to be leaders around here, since I'm not allowed to discuss topics I find interesting [23:46:00] with other people [23:46:05] that found the same topic interesting [23:46:14] so in this open and free platform [23:46:19] who are you to decide? [23:46:43] Cyclo: even [23:46:53] ONly that crap is interesting for you [23:46:54] the people who are workin on a particular project? [23:46:55] Cyclo: we can solve it this way then: anyone in RBOSE management that wish to continue litening to your shit can keep working, and the rest of us dont. See for how long this network will function... [23:47:04] and who can make "any other forms of discrimination" ? [23:47:06] I'm not a member of rbose. It's just a hub for people of free and open source solutions who understand the issue with monetary system. [23:47:18] Viper: Why do you keep labeling my interests as crap? [23:47:25] because it is4 [23:47:39] yeah, but isn't open discussions essential in open source solutions etc? [23:47:49] Caly: And there is only One Truth, and you own it? [23:47:56] I don't think of it as such. [23:48:04] guys do you want go back to that crap movement? [23:48:08] we won't let other cults use our netwok for promoting crap either. [23:48:10] mkay? [23:48:12] Viper: Why do I have to choose? [23:48:17] Viper, I'm a member. :) [23:48:19] You can [23:48:20] Why is it one way or the other? [23:48:24] Why can't I have both? [23:48:32] You can do that too [23:48:32] Cyclo, go and talk in other channel, this crap is not related to rbose. It's a nice ability in life to differ the toilet from chair. How many place there is universe you can do everything? [23:48:35] as Cyclo [23:48:41] Again, you're being extremely egocentric to think that RBOSE is the only way for the world to take a path. [23:48:43] ok [23:49:09] if i am science fiction fan [23:49:20] lukas, sure, but could you open #TZM for me please? the same ms as it's open for me and Kimsan, you won't see anymore stuff regarding TZM here [23:49:20] *** Cyclo was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "tzm" on this channel.) [23:49:24] Kimsan: noone has said that, that is PJ semantics. [23:49:25] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [23:49:39] Cyclo one person can not make that decision [23:49:44] Cyclo: why not use some other network? [23:49:51] and hang out with my friends in chat, then i dont go in #foss and talk about science fiction [23:49:53] Caly: It's not. Viper just said. RBOSE and only RBOSE or not RBOSE. [23:49:54] so asking is pointless [23:49:59] Freenode, EFnet, etc.. there are plenty [23:50:11] i shouldnt at least, becuz thats not the subject [23:50:11] just give me a reason why there can't exist a channel for that topic? [23:50:22] it dont fit with our rules [23:50:33] What Viper said [23:50:40] # content being in conflict with transparency, decentralized and distributed, free and open source solutions [23:50:40] rules of discussions? [23:50:45] Cyclo, ask Dr.Spin, master of religion and politics, who is skilled in making propaganda movies, but you may have a problem with trademark :| [23:50:51] read the disclaimer [23:50:53] read the disclaimer [23:50:55] read the disclaimer [23:50:57] Caly: Maybe he likes the guys here, but he don't have to accept everything, as this is free and open enviroment. [23:50:58] so there can't be discussions about it? [23:51:18] so there can't be open discussions about any topics around here? [23:51:21] you can in #fukk_tzm or offtopic [23:51:24] cyclo isnt there right now the whoel time a discussion about that again? [23:51:31] ^^ [23:51:32] lukas: make that channel, and everybody will be fine or am i wrong? [23:51:45] the trigger is a menas to rid the channel of eccessive spamming and promotion of a cult that contradict our disclaimer. [23:51:49] Viper, so I can talk about it in that channel with a disrespectful name ? [23:51:49] :P [23:51:56] read the disclaimer [23:51:57] read the disclaimer [23:51:58] read the disclaimer [23:52:03] read the disclaimer [23:52:06] read the disclaimer [23:52:06] *** Caly was kicked by RBOSE (Stop repeating yourself!) [23:52:07] Yes you can Cyclo [23:52:11] :-D [23:52:14] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) [23:52:18] eb Caly [23:52:19] Viper, but what about the disclaimer then? :P [23:52:20] wb* [23:52:26] DNS: Let's develop that logic you're presenting. So if I wanted to discuss fruits and their nutrition content, I wouldn't do it in here, in the main channel, right? I would more likely to do it in #nutrition. Why don't apply the same logic to the Z movement? I want to discuss it, why won't you let me? Just because you dislike the content being discussed, it doesn't mean it objectively is "crap". It's the opinion of yours. [23:52:39] now how long we are talking about this crap? [23:52:40] lol cmon [23:52:41] see, that's ANOTHER trigger to prevent the channel from spamming [23:52:49] Cyclo, one year ago we quit, but people prone to believes are bringing that over and over, we want to work with serious people, and we look like idiots when they join main project channel, and 50% of the discussion is cultology. [23:52:55] Viper: Hopefully not much longer. [23:53:11] lukas: It doesn't have to be that way. [23:53:32] true [23:53:36] some day you [23:53:42] Guys, this is another cult. [23:53:46] *you'll read the disclaimer xD [23:53:49] TZM hater's cult, [23:53:50] *** Julius was kicked by RBOSE (Nem használható ez a szó: tzm!) [23:53:51] Kimsan, crapmovement is based on ideologies, it's not working for all people, we have a problem with that [23:53:58] Yeah, I really respect your opinions [23:53:58] i think you see the movement very different... i see the movement basically as a religious like group because all is based on a belief system [23:54:04] *** Joins: Julius (Julius@psyc.RBOSE) [23:54:09] but in the same time, you have to respect my opinions too? [23:54:15] wb Julius :D [23:54:21] Viper: ;-) [23:54:22] DNS, but still [23:54:26] DNS: Exactly my point. [23:54:35] I THINK THE SOLUTION IS TO CREATE A #T.Z.M. channel without any labels, like shit, fuck [23:54:39] And there's not an ultimate truth or an ultimate view. [23:54:49] Fodi69: exactly [23:54:51] Fodi69: Amen. [23:54:56] :-) [23:54:57] Fodi69, ask dr.Spin [23:54:57] Fodi69, yes please! :] [23:55:02] Fodi69: meaow [23:55:20] <|UFO|> NO [23:55:35] I want a channel where I can post my picture http://art.yuri.se/files/art/11.png [23:55:36] :T [23:55:48] why the heck you don't keep it there? let me guess... because he is an owner of everything there and doesn't let you do it? [23:55:49] :DD [23:55:51] Fodi69: The tech guys don't seem to be consistent though. Sometimes they like solutions, sometimes they don't. [23:55:55] Fat64 join #fukk_tzm :D [23:55:57] Today, they don't.' [23:56:02] lukas, DNS, as I said, I respect your opinions, in the same way you hopefully respect mine, so why is there a problem with letting us in to #TZM ? [23:56:06] you can post it there [23:56:07] lol [23:56:23] Fat64, lol [23:56:26] ok x) [23:56:36] :D [23:57:28] i think an open solution has to respect other solutions, like openoffice respects the .doc format [23:57:45] O_o [23:57:54] yea, we need to respect proprietary... [23:57:55] or? [23:57:56] doc is a proprietary format [23:57:56] but viper just recently watched this documentary on how not to respect stuff, just WRECK HAVOC :D [23:57:59] lol [23:57:59] open source should respect close source? [23:57:59] amirite [23:58:10] we should put up a stand [23:58:16] and be non-tolerant bitches [23:58:20] >:| or Idunno [23:58:24] Viper: open should be open and not partially [23:58:25] yeah [23:58:33] Yeah [23:58:34] we're all different people [23:59:02] I think tzam should be discussable in a channel for it. :) [23:59:10] guys, some of you think that every place is for everything, and then why your dinner table looks different than WC? [23:59:21] I created and joined another channel that wasn't added in the censor list. You won't see me discuss tzm in this channel again, I will keep it to the relevant channel. Thank you. [23:59:21] *** Kimsan was kicked by RBOSE (Sorry, but we are tired of "tzm" on this channel.) [23:59:25] *** Joins: Kimsan (Kim@RBOSE-lrfah1.cust.tele2.se) [23:59:40] ok [23:59:52] *** Joins: anne (anne@RBOSE-8t1mvc.adsl.tpnet.pl) [23:59:55] lukas: :-D