[00:10:48] -nobody- nick change by max-eating to maxvagabond on FREENODE [00:40:11] *** DNS777 is now known as [777] [00:55:25] *** Quits: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [01:23:41] *** Quits: DerAKTIVist (qwebirc@RBOSE-esq9as.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Page closed) [01:59:54] http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/fb4f7dcfbf.jpg [02:10:30] *** JoshStrobl is now known as JoshStrobl-afk [02:13:12] cool lukas [02:13:18] seen that from CES [02:13:25] was it Toshiba? [02:13:57] almost a bit humorus with a touchpad on a touchscreen ^^ [02:13:58] that one above was acer [02:14:04] aha [02:14:09] yeah, lol [02:14:15] my laptop is anacer [02:14:21] *an acer [02:14:32] my desctop monitor as well [02:14:41] they make some decent stuff [02:15:51] glad to hear that you are satisfied with hardware you choose :) [02:18:32] *** Quits: JoshStrobl-afk (qwebirc@RBOSE-8jjpjv.rioaccess.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [02:22:03] -nobody- maxvagabond has left on FREENODE [02:32:17] lukas: well yeah, decent quality, the desktop monitor is really bright with good colors, 400candela 24" [02:33:03] the laptop has good battery time, and the best keyboard i've had, the touchpad sucks though, and it has a ATI gpx card =( [02:33:46] and everytime kman comes by, i realize how thin my laptop is ^^ [03:46:13] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-cn2n3m.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [03:46:13] *** Joins: kman_ (kman@RBOSE-cn2n3m.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [03:46:43] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-cn2n3m.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Connection closed) [03:58:01] `fortune [03:58:01] Viper: Conscience doth make cowards of us all. -- Shakespeare [03:58:18] `fortune [03:58:18] Viper: Q: What's the difference between USL and the Titanic? A: The Titanic had a band. [03:59:43] hehe [04:29:35] kalken: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63NTB7oObtw [04:29:36] You4Tube 2[Title] Sir Ken Robinson: Collaboration in the 21st Century 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:05:59 2[Views] 13171 2[Rating] 4.93 2[Uploaded] 2010-03-16 2[Description] Sir Ken Robinson, PhD, is an internationally recognized leader in the development of creativity, innovation and human resources. He has led and advised high-impact national commissions on creativity, education and the economy in Europe, Asia and the United [04:31:31] *** Quits: kman_ (kman@RBOSE-cn2n3m.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [04:37:18] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEkYCIAY44k [04:37:19] You4Tube 2[Title] Sir Ken Robinson: A wider notion of ability 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:07:55 2[Views] 14500 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2009-04-07 2[Description] Creativity expert Sir Ken Robinson makes the point that, in a time of revolution, we need to develop a wider notion of ability. More at http://www.creativemomentum.org [04:44:17] *** Joins: JoshStrobl (qwebirc@RBOSE-8jjpjv.rioaccess.com) [04:59:20] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJAL21IE9fY [04:59:21] You4Tube 2[Title] Sir Ken Robinson, Hammer Lectures 2[Category] People 2[Duration] 1:23:16 2[Views] 107508 2[Rating] 4.95 2[Uploaded] 2009-03-07 2[Description] Ken Robinson has written numerous books, most recently "The Element: How Finding Your Passion Changes Everything." This talk explores ways to connect peoples' natural aptitudes with their personal passions to achieve at their highest levels in education and business. He was k [06:50:30] *** Joins: anne (anne@RBOSE-m1ibgk.adsl.tpnet.pl) [07:11:16] *** Quits: JoshStrobl (qwebirc@RBOSE-8jjpjv.rioaccess.com) (Quit: Page closed) [07:45:14] -nobody- jscinoz has joined on FREENODE [07:45:19] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> hello [07:45:22] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> gentlemen [07:45:45] 14<13Caly@FREENODE14> hi [07:45:47] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> hai [07:45:49] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> ahhh [07:45:54] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> i hbave messed up the captcha on your site [07:45:56] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> 4 times now [07:45:58] 14<13Caly@FREENODE14> this is just a chan for redundancy, we have our own network [07:46:01] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> Caly: too many trees :P [07:46:18] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> Caly: server details? [07:46:44] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> FFFFFUUUU [07:46:49] -nobody- robobot[4] has joined on FREENODE [07:46:51] 14<13Caly@FREENODE14> hang on [07:46:52] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> i cannot captcha [07:47:00] DNS: there? [07:47:15] ,IRC [07:47:15] Caly: Error: "IRC" is not a valid command. [07:47:19] !IRC [07:47:20] If you think someone is annoying in IRC, then you can put the one on ignore list just type /ignore ... To unignore a nick type /unignore [07:47:22] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> haha got it! [07:47:24] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> success [07:47:31] great [07:48:06] 14<13Caly@FREENODE14> see, it cross-communicates with our main chan on our network here =) [07:48:23] 14<13Caly@FREENODE14> all OP's are bots btw [07:48:26] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> ok [07:48:31] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> whats the server details? [07:48:45] 14<13Caly@FREENODE14> http://rbose.org/wiki/IRC/Servers [07:48:46] URL Title: IRC/Servers - RBOSE [07:48:47] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> ah yeah [07:48:58] 05<03jscinoz@FREENODE05> ok be over there in a sec [07:49:00] -nobody- jscinoz has left on FREENODE [07:49:28] -nobody- robobot[4] has left on FREENODE [07:49:30] *** Joins: jscinoz (jscinoz@RBOSE-rdhsrj.tpgi.com.au) [07:49:36] Yo [07:49:45] got another one! [07:49:47] =) [07:49:49] hi [07:50:08] :) [07:50:23] was a bit messy to keep track on what you asked about amongst the ents [07:50:29] So, i was looking at the wiki, Could we do with a category for energy? i cant see one [07:51:32] http://rbose.org/wiki/OSH_list [07:51:33] URL Title: OSH list - RBOSE [07:51:52] there is a category for energy stuff, but most of our work is yet to be put in. [07:51:59] oh ok [07:52:06] so wait [07:52:12] is this project: [07:52:21] i made a lot of stuff in Wave, wich we have backed up (rather, Viper has) [07:52:25] Viper: awake? [07:52:26] a. an attempt to collate all the information for a self sufficient community and stuff [07:52:31] b. an actual attempt to *create* one? [07:52:38] both [07:52:48] any thoughts for the location? [07:52:54] and how you'd go about obtaining the land [07:52:57] Spain or Costa Rica [07:53:04] for he first one [07:53:49] acctually, i think it will be a quite modualar scalable community blueprint, and something like a foundation to handle resources [07:54:23] so people can start up communities wherever they are [07:54:29] Have you considered lesser developed countries? [07:54:37] not yet, no. [07:54:45] I saw a post on reddit a while ago about some guy who had his own house built (which i think might hvae been self sufficient) [07:54:48] somewhere, for $30k [07:54:52] both the land + labour costs [07:54:54] lemme find the post [07:54:58] cool [07:55:16] we ofc study a great deal about green building with local materials [07:55:33] Caly: was any thought given to an internal economy in this commune? [07:55:42] like, non capitalist obviously [07:55:55] ah i found the post [07:56:03] cob, clay, mudplaster, earthbags. strawbale [07:56:04] it was $35k + $10k for the land [07:56:07] http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/f8sf3/ama_designed_and_built_a_beach_house_for_35000/ [07:56:11] URL Title: AMA Designed and built a beach house for $35,000 (+$10,000 for the land) : IAmA [07:56:13] Caly: hempcrete :P [07:56:23] yeah, strong stuff! [07:56:27] oh, and the guy is self-sufficient for energy [07:56:30] it would appear [07:56:32] turbine + solar [07:56:37] that's a given for us [07:56:46] but yeah, that's in zanzibar i think [07:56:50] so it's uber cheap [07:57:09] get a few used forklift batteries, hook our own stuff to it etc. [07:57:20] openenergymonitor.org =) [07:57:25] Caly: i think you're underestimating how much power would be needed [07:57:29] nope [07:57:38] wait [07:57:42] how big is this commune planned to be? [07:57:42] do you know how much such batteris hold? [07:57:53] no planned size, scalability [07:58:03] Can you give me hard numbers? [07:58:12] decentralized electricity grids don't care about size [07:58:16] true [07:58:19] but [07:58:19] wait [07:58:36] which model, wrt to housing are you going with? [07:58:37] well, currently those willing to do this in a near future here is prolly about ten [07:58:41] like [07:58:54] a. traditional houses, each on their own block of land [07:58:59] well, we're still researching alot [07:59:02] b. apartments with shared spaces? [07:59:05] c. arcology type thing :P [07:59:10] no traditional houses [07:59:13] i'm just thinking [07:59:24] each housing unit, whatever form it takes [07:59:36] would have its own solar + wind + compost heap (for heat + methane) [07:59:54] and those batteries you said, for energy storage for when those aren't operating? [07:59:56] was that correct? [08:00:05] possibly, also possible that we share in groups, small or big, at will [08:00:16] yeah [08:00:18] correct [08:01:00] how are you going to obtain the batteries [08:01:05] and replace them every few years when they degrade? [08:01:40] used forklift batteries are like 5000Ah or more, even if they're not considered in shape for forklifts, it still works well for lower peak outtake for many many years [08:01:55] yes, but they still *eventually* need to be replaed [08:02:03] i find such used for like 200€ [08:02:03] and isn't sustainability a big thing here? :P [08:02:10] and self sufficiency [08:02:24] are you gonna somehow find a way to manufacture the batteries internally? [08:02:28] with a little luck and a nice plan to present, we might get those as donations [08:02:39] have you thought about other ways of storing energy? [08:02:44] that would ofc be the goal, yeah [08:02:52] Flywheels? Molten Salt batteries? Even storing it as gravitational/spring potential [08:03:13] lift a huge rock up 10m, slowly let it fall on a dynamo = energy, and a method of *storing* energy [08:03:15] rome wans't buit in one day though, getting started is more important than having a perfect sollution [08:03:36] run an engine/motor to winch it up, "charging" it [08:03:42] lower on a dynamo to discharge :P [08:03:46] we're looking at a variety of possibilities, sure. [08:04:23] and i hope we get to try most of them out in time, RBOSE stands for Resource Based Open Source Environment, we are a development thinktank more than anything else. [08:04:33] *over time [08:04:54] hmm [08:04:56] oh, and yeah, you registered...wait [08:05:28] http://rbose.org/wiki/Sandbox3 [08:05:29] URL Title: Sandbox3 - RBOSE [08:05:48] oh [08:05:51] so wait [08:05:56] what's everyone's fields/expertise? [08:06:02] recent work in progress, but i think this text gives a rather good view of what we are going for [08:06:21] Caly: would you consider the philsophy here anarchistic? [08:06:38] Caly: ie, are you opposed to any kind of hierarchy in the community? [08:06:45] jscinoz: mine is mechanics, my background is in the motorcycle business, and growing out woth a father with a mechanic workshop [08:07:08] jscinoz: very opposed, we are focusing very hard on flat structure [08:07:15] hence, no mods, only bots. [08:07:26] for instance [08:07:29] My expertise is sysadmin/programming. I'm at university atm, doing a double degree in Computer Systems Engineering, and Biotechnology [08:07:33] read the text ;) [08:07:45] wow, great asset! [08:08:06] :P [08:08:09] and personal stuff: [08:08:11] DNS here is the main IRC operator, and a coder [08:08:24] atheist, anarcho-communist, transhumanist [08:08:51] Fat64, Viper, lukas, Billll and some others are also coders [08:09:01] kman /(not here) is a chemist [08:09:09] hmm, I need some gobby thing to edit? [08:09:16] emerge -av gobby :P [08:09:26] scrdcow lives in a semi-eco-community village [08:09:28] then type my own password wrong twice :P [08:09:34] Caly: oh? wow :D [08:09:47] Hi :) [08:10:07] hi anne! [08:10:26] jscinoz: idk if you need it everywhere, but yeah, we strive to use gobby as somthing of a wysiwyg wiki editor, and also for drafting and meeting protocols etc. [08:10:30] hi anne! [08:10:35] did you get the pic? [08:10:37] =P [08:10:47] no [08:11:08] Caly: what do you think of the concept of vertical farming? [08:11:16] jscinoz: anne and me and kalken and Viper is the ones working most on the irl community aspects [08:11:43] jscinoz: we are into vertical farming, auaphonics, hudrophonics, and ofc permaculture. [08:12:14] i anna have a talapia fish breeding system and the whole nine yards [08:12:18] *wanna [08:12:26] It's way beyond what not just us, but I'd gather, any organisation at all, could do. but what do you think of Arcologies? [08:12:41] i'm starting to think you are acctually quite at par with us sollutionwise =P [08:12:46] Caly: btw, Aeroponics too :P [08:12:58] sure [08:13:06] Caly: I'm actually in the middle of putting together a hybrid system... Aero, fog, and DWC. [08:13:11] Definitely for growing vegetables.... [08:13:13] nothing illicit [08:13:14] no way. [08:13:15] not at all. [08:13:16] ;) [08:13:36] i'd love to experiment on all kinds of growsystems, much is about getting as much food and other resources par areal as possible [08:13:36] jscinoz are you interested in irl community? we have regular meeting in mumble. [08:13:48] anne: definitely, but I'm guessing I'm no where near you guys [08:13:54] I'm in Sydney (Australia, not canadaland :P) [08:14:03] cool [08:14:07] anne: but yeah, mumble would be good [08:14:10] but for now [08:14:13] i must go eat [08:14:16] back shortly (15min) [08:18:05] jscinoz: remind me to try and grab that guy zeleftikam when he returns to r.trees [08:23:04] jscinoz i was thinking about Ecuador too its free software country [08:23:34] but really we need to have db about countries [08:26:08] precisely [08:26:18] modularity and scalability is everything [08:26:58] we're not only doing this for ourselves, we're doing it to give anyone on the planet the tools to follow our lead, so to speak [08:35:16] baack [08:35:31] yo we would like to be a community under creative commons license [08:35:37] Caly: would sovereignity be a goal? [08:35:48] to have the community considered its own city-state [08:36:51] where possible, sure, as far away from totalitarianism as possible (big brother control and insight) [08:38:16] we want social realtions to be like peer hosted, co-distributed networks in all aspects [08:38:55] Caly: so, would there be any laws (aside from the obvious prohibition of murder/assault/rape) [08:39:02] no need for trade and barter if everything needed for a quality life is in abundance, just share it [08:39:45] well, there will be something of a foss social contract so to speak, but all in all, not much need for it in sane societys [08:39:55] ok [08:40:04] so would all of the following be permitted in such a community: [08:40:18] did you read that sandbox text? [08:40:20] drug use of any substance [08:40:24] Caly: partially [08:40:34] sorry hehe [08:40:36] we are thinking now about vision, good plan, and who would like develop what [08:40:41] allowed, just donät harm others or infringe on their freedoms [08:40:43] i'm just so into this stuff, because i'm tired of conventional nations [08:40:50] and not letting people do what they wish [08:41:00] word! [08:41:28] i was trying to start a movement here [08:41:33] but people are too apathetic [08:41:36] jscinoz: see, what i told you in r.trees, you're among thinking people here, that thinks you are responsible for yourself [08:41:55] I was trying to start a movement with the goal of forcing the AUS government to enact a bill of rights (we dont have one right now) [08:42:02] and co-responsible for the healt of the environment and the comunity [08:42:02] andi was writing a draft document [08:42:05] bill of rights, but in the modern age [08:42:36] so its got all the conventional stuffs, but also, gay marriage rights, cognitive liberty (and thus, drug use), euthanasia, abortion, the right to film/record/photograph police and other government officials [08:42:51] yeah, well, the nation state system is nearing it's end really, we donät bather about patchwork, we rather build a new and improved society [08:42:52] and it would have implemented direct democracy as a right :P [08:43:12] Caly: in this new system, how will decisions be made that affect the greater community? [08:43:20] reddit style e-democracy! [08:43:25] =) [08:43:28] anyone can post something [08:43:30] and it goes up or down [08:43:40] representative democracy is broken [08:43:44] direct democracy is needed [08:44:01] well, i'm just about to hit the chapter on consensus decision making in a book about community building, so i'll get back to you on that =P [08:44:01] or, the impossibility of a benelevant, permissive, incorruptible dictator.... so... AI :P [08:44:26] but basically, not many decisions will get "made", they will get arrived at from scientific endeavour [08:44:35] doesnt consensus just lead to neither side getting what they want? [08:44:42] Caly: i like [08:44:45] note really [08:44:47] =) [08:44:53] i like the way how the decision are making in Lammas community: everyone must agreed [08:45:02] i had the best highdea the other night [08:45:06] but we could never do it :( [08:45:15] Arcology on the currently neutral west antarctic icesheet [08:45:29] one megastructure containing a whole city + food source [08:45:29] and the most important is the common vision [08:45:40] and the best part [08:45:45] we could be like FUCK YOU UN [08:45:52] because its unclaimed territory [08:45:57] well, yeah. but basically, the basis is, you donät get to impose anything onto anyone, most any good solution is a win-win one, if i't aint, we're simply donät done thinking about it [08:46:02] agreed [08:46:11] the main issues i see [08:46:17] potential blockers, if you will: [08:46:25] a. Internet access, with acceptable latency and bandwidth [08:46:35] jscinoz: there is another way as well, make our own floating island [08:46:48] b. Manufacturing; although a lot of goods can be handcrafted, or reprapped, there's things too precise to be made without specialist equipement [08:46:51] e.g. microprocessors [08:47:05] so far, eah [08:47:10] c. interference from other nations (ie. usa decides they don't like our freedom, and steals our trees!) [08:47:14] those 3 things [08:47:17] are the main blockers atm [08:47:22] imho [08:47:23] i think that home fabrivation under open licensing will boom [08:47:32] Caly: yeah, but we're not there yet :P [08:47:35] dangit [08:47:41] GIMMME MY MOLECULAR ASSEMBLER ALREADY [08:47:55] random tangent.... [08:47:57] sure, but we'll promote whatever takes us in that direction, we transition as we go [08:48:01] http://www.futuretimeline.net/index.htm Caly, do you like this? [08:48:08] if only *stares wistfully* :P [08:48:10] URL Title: Future Timeline | Technology | Singularity | 2020 | 2050 | 2100 | 2150 | 2200 | 21st century | 22nd century | 23rd century | Humanity | Predictions | Events [08:48:31] i donät need all kinds of high-tech stuff to live free and happy, but as they get developed, i'll adopt it, if it don't. ill learn how to edevelop it. [08:48:49] noone can be dependent upon to make change but yourself [08:49:04] be the change is something of a motto here [08:49:43] Ah. [08:49:48] Just my transhumanist side coming across :P [08:50:16] jscinoz: one of the reasons we have so little hardware stuff int the wiki yet, is that we intend to make a technology tree for all aspects of technological development. [08:50:25] ahh [08:50:37] are you going to figure that out from the bottom-up? [08:50:39] or top-down? [08:50:56] like, think of one particular amenity, and break it down into things we can make? [08:50:56] well, actually, itös not a linear tree structure at all [08:50:59] or the other way around [08:50:59] oh [08:51:00] but a web [08:51:08] it's kinda a bit of both [08:51:10] there'll be a web [08:51:13] but there's fundamental things [08:51:15] used everywhere [08:51:28] demmmit, Swwedish keyboard... i keep hitting åäö instead of ' [08:51:38] my terminal doesnt support unicode [08:51:39] :S [08:51:41] WHY IS THIS [08:51:44] its supposed to [08:51:48] Oh well. [08:51:59] Swedish alphabet letters, nevermind [08:52:32] aa, ae and oe [08:52:48] kinda [08:52:57] ah [08:53:02] sweden! [08:53:19] jscinoz: we strive for modularity in projects, just like most linux software is built. [08:53:21] yeah [08:53:41] *gnu linux ;) [08:53:46] like, we start a project for a car, standardized platform. [08:54:02] add prefered transmission [08:54:25] you igh wanna develop a fuel angine to run on methane for it, i want an electric engine. [08:54:59] that electric angine is scalable with a few set sizes on transmission adaptors/connectors [08:55:20] re cars [08:55:23] the electric engine project is the same wether it-s for a car, a washing machine or a computer fan motor [08:55:33] i think the best way is to have everythign run off a motor [08:55:37] but have a modular supply systems [08:55:38] just as an example [08:55:43] batteries, or a generator that runs on hydrogen [08:55:47] or a generator that runs on biodiesal [08:55:48] etc [08:55:56] or all of the above.. [08:56:12] i've seen some intriguing engine designs [08:56:24] like as an alternative to the regular internal combustion engines [08:56:34] the more interlinked suystems, the more redundancy ofc [08:56:38] there was that car [08:56:39] in the 60s [08:56:41] that used a turbine [08:56:46] yeah [08:56:53] and theres this new one i keep hearing about [08:56:55] "wave disk engine" [08:57:04] yeah, thatäs interesting stuff [08:57:15] i've always been a fan of wankels [08:57:21] i have homebrew beer [08:57:30] and trees (non-homegrown :() [08:57:39] cool, there is an open source project for automated beer home brewing [08:57:52] i think it's ited in our OSH list as well [08:58:01] ooh [08:58:07] i'm hoping [08:58:09] *listed [08:58:13] to eventually build a hydroponic box [08:58:16] that is self-contained [08:58:19] and has a beagleboard [08:58:20] arduino based if i recall it right [08:58:23] hooked up to some relays [08:58:30] controlling fans/pumps/lights [08:58:33] yeah, beagleboards rock [08:58:41] and getting data from temp/ph/cf/water level sensors [08:58:42] and [08:58:44] a webcam! [08:58:46] for internal view :P [08:58:53] the reason a beagleboard instead of aruino: [08:58:55] easier to get it online [08:58:57] easier to program [08:59:00] :P [08:59:12] i'd use the GPIO pins [08:59:20] for sensors or connecting it to pump/light driving relays [08:59:31] sure, kman and me are building the repraps, he has the arduino stuff and all the electrics, i have the bearings and axles and such, we work here in my workshop occationally [08:59:34] then i could write some TINY thing, even in a high level language like python if i wanted [08:59:43] i need to learn more aout the electronics side [08:59:47] kman ae looking into sensors and stuff as well [08:59:50] i'm mainly a software/network guy atm, but i want to learn more [08:59:52] yeah, me too [09:00:52] we have a guy called Lundburgerr_ who also has a set of electronics for RepRap, same with a guy called warpi, but he kinda got fed up after getting very poor quality mendel plastic parts [09:00:59] `wiki stirling engine [09:01:02] Viper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine [09:01:03] Viper: A Stirling engine is a heat engine operating by cyclic compression and expansion of air or other gas, the working fluid, at different temperature levels such that there is a net conversion of heat energy to mechanical work. [09:01:03] URL Title: Stirling engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [09:01:15] Hi jscinoz! [09:01:24] Why we dont use this? [09:01:49] Viper: ihave talked about sterlings for two years here... [09:01:54] you dont need sun water wind for it hehe [09:01:55] Flywheel energy storage [09:01:56] gentlemen [09:02:02] Viper: there's an efficiency limit [09:02:11] you can run it 24/7 [09:02:11] yeah, that has been considered as well jscinoz [09:02:26] =P [09:02:32] the problem with things that arent stationary [09:02:41] is you've gotta move the mass storing your energy source [09:03:15] and right now, batteries can't get anywhere near as good energy and power densities [09:03:15] lotsa brains here who keep coming up with new suggestions on a daily basis, i wish we wrote it all down in the wiki instead of here, but.. hehe [09:03:22] i don't even do that, so [09:03:24] Caly: what do you think of synthetic hydrocarbons? [09:03:25]