[00:00:32] "Right now, there have been several new True Fans subscribing every day." [00:00:57] "Open Capitalist Platform – This could be a huge step towards the scalable open source product development. First step would be to systems engineer this platform and communicate it as a comprehensive block diagram." [00:02:28] Is every person with a bit of success becoming drunk with it? [00:03:17] no [00:04:18] Where is the "wealth without money" from RepRap? What are doing angel, platinum, gold and silver subscriptions on the ose website? [00:06:23] OSE is fucked up [00:06:25] sorry folks [00:06:40] they see only OpenSource = $$$$$$$$$$ [00:07:42] Why they switch focus from helping people freely into money? I have seen this so many times that i don't know if i can express the disappointment with those folks. [00:08:33] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [00:08:39] sorry to see your hate for money blind the good work that is still being done [00:09:04] Kebap23 they dont share any more only make $ [00:09:36] Kebap23, it's not that, i do not hate money. Money are just a believe system, and i don't need more religion. [00:10:26] the only way to make $ is to cheat on people [00:14:26] "If you like what you read here – consider subscribing – we are almost at the 300 True Fanships mark." [00:14:44] SO wtf if i dont have $ i am Fake? [00:15:15] no [00:15:27] "True Fanships" [00:15:37] "True" lol [00:16:04] People come to farm of that guy and build a house for him, anybody asked what he is building for them? They give him money and does anybody asked what money he is giving them? Did anybody tried download a single blueprint? So what good work? Each of us can build a house, but would we try to trick people with marketing that we are doing a job for others? Seriously what good work? [00:16:17] Kebap23 i agree with you, but on that website i would be fake because i did not pay lol [00:16:50] lukas: yes i try download blueprint [00:17:06] and how it went? [00:17:16] cant find any right now [00:17:25] exactly [00:17:51] Kebap23 he dont even share tools that he made with other people [00:18:02] I am not sure if he spend HIS money on this tools... [00:18:53] lol [00:19:11] Kebap23 try join true fan club maybe then you finde BluePrints :D [00:19:32] your sarcasm isnt helping here [00:19:44] Maybe its true [00:20:39] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [00:20:49] wb nairboon :) [00:21:02] lukas: how about this? http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Initial_LifeTrac_design surely there must be blueprints somewhere, if their whole idea of "open source" technology has any content... if not, time to gather content then.. i am not an engineer so i cant judge the validity there [00:21:04] URL Title: Initial LifeTrac design - Open Source Ecology [00:21:21] !pillow Viper [00:21:23] ACTION quickly throws a pillow in the face of Viper [00:21:30] hello^^ [00:21:37] maybe only Angels get blueprints??? [00:21:41] Hey!!! [00:21:47] ,smack nairboon [00:21:48] * rBOTse smacks nairboon with a handbook about how to think [00:21:48] haha [00:21:58] heya nairboon [00:22:00] xD [00:22:48] 100$ a month = Angel [00:22:52] ose seems to be really focusing on marketing and as result they catch people who believe [00:23:06] Kebap23, check this: http://openfarmtech.org/w/index.php?title=Initial_LifeTrac_design&action=history [00:23:07] URL Title: Revision history of "Initial LifeTrac design" - Open Source Ecology [00:23:19] 3 years! [00:23:50] ya thats because its an old design that has been improved in the mean time [00:24:13] they milk it until its dead .... [00:24:14] yeah, and the supposed new is where? [00:24:17] i was just answering your claim that there are no blueprints to be downloaded anywhere. obviously, that claim is wrong [00:24:49] Kebap23, are you kidding me? :D this is a blueprint? [00:25:11] i a kid can make better blueprint [00:25:18] - i [00:25:21] damn [00:25:38] i go to sleep, happy bashing [00:25:55] Kebap23 none is bashing [00:26:03] ,pillow Kebap23 [00:26:03] * rBOTse quickly throws a pillow in the face of Kebap23 [00:26:07] good night :) [00:26:08] sure looks like it then [00:26:25] OSE is a scam [00:26:26] well thank you [00:26:59] Kebap23 sleep well, for sure we need to do better than that and not only criticize [00:28:11] but it's just... i don't know... i never found a single blueprint, and when people believe in something they never seen, it's really not motivating [00:29:11] sometimes i think that people want to be cheated, they want to have their dreams, and you are the bad one if you use compressed air and remove the cloud :( [00:30:12] lukas i think peole ignore it when they got cheated [00:30:20] so its like did not happen [00:30:56] but some times i am like that too lol [00:38:37] kebap23 you still there? [00:39:39] i was thinking maybe i can drop you off a mic tomorrow hehe [00:40:03] :D [01:02:55] sad thing OSE seems to have corrupted averything it claimed to be in the past [01:03:03] fuck them, let's do this RIGHT [01:03:32] perhaps we will get more people soon, as TVP/TZM is falling apart and into war woth each other [01:03:40] ^^ [01:14:45] *** Quits: Hakufu_ (jsajfsagj@RBOSE-ih71p9.customer.telia.com) (Quit: Lämnar) [01:17:10] I just think they aren't that good at presenting info/blueprints/etc [01:19:01] and the thing about "true fans" arent new at all. they were trying that stuff since almost the beginning, but they didn't call it "true fans" back then. [01:19:49] one of the earlier videos he talks about how many donaters they need to be able to complete it all (think he said until 2011 aswell :-D very optimistic...) [01:20:53] (also donations is notheng new in the free software world) [01:22:49] I have always thought there material has been a bit hard to understand thou, I don't think they are very skilled in that department. [01:22:53] their* [01:23:50] but anyways. I don't think they have changed, they wanted to make this with donations from the beginning. to be able to work on it full time. [01:24:51] i think they cheat on people [01:25:02] in exactly what way? [01:26:38] guys, sorry i brought the crap up, take it in #FUKK_TZM or somwhere else [01:26:53] what? [01:27:01] i'm not talking about any tzm stuff. [01:27:01] scrdcow OSE ? [01:27:11] Viper: openfarmtech [01:27:12] oh, ok [01:27:22] *tierd [01:27:44] was that not Open Source Ecology? [01:27:47] hehe it's ok. you guys were talking about ose/openfarmtech anyways, I just wanted to fill in. [01:27:50] huh they change name lol [01:28:04] scrdcow you are welcome to fill in :) [01:28:16] Viper: well... not as I see it. open source ecology is a term for what they are doing, open farm tech are their name. [01:28:18] every one with opinion is welcome [01:28:34] OSE and Farmtech and there is even some other name they use as well [01:28:37] since long [01:28:51] scrdcow: right... [01:28:54] True Fans? Angels? haha [01:28:59] yeah,. lol [01:29:04] capitalists... [01:29:18] i did not pay so i call me Fake Fan :D [01:29:23] yeah [01:29:28] Viper: a couple of years back atleast, they never said anything about ose exept a link to apropedia that explained what it was or such. [01:29:58] sorry but they make one crappy device. 3 years a go [01:30:03] RBOSE is also OSE i gusee ^^ [01:30:04] and they keep asking money for what? [01:30:12] in what way are people being cheated? in what way are they capitalists (it seems they work a helluva lot...)? [01:30:32] Viper: ok, then try to do it yourself. and work faster. [01:30:42] people donate i dont know for what, people build something for him not share it with others [01:30:48] by mere separation between those who can afford to be their bitchen, and those who can't [01:30:59] Viper: I thought he was way to optimistic even from the beginning, completing everything in such a short while. it takes time. [01:31:18] they should rename themself Closed SOurce Ecology / Closed Farmtech [01:31:42] Viper: if you actually look at the wiki you will see they present stuff. [01:32:04] Viper: maybe not good enough, but still. I just think they are bad at that part, and has always been since the beginning. [01:32:09] They are basically saing "Hey, we're Open Source, as long as yo pay us!" [01:32:24] word Caly :D [01:32:33] it's like saying, You are all true virgins, as long as you fuck me! [01:32:44] suck. [01:32:50] err. that was in swedish :-D [01:32:57] sigh [01:32:58] or "To really be alive, here, take this gun and shoot yourself in the head!" [01:33:13] no dont do that [01:33:22] right... [01:33:23] santa will send you to the snowland LOL [01:33:29] hehe [01:33:50] http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/LifeTrac [01:33:51] URL Title: LifeTrac - Open Source Ecology [01:34:23] anyways, so yeah, it's the total super-contradiction they represent that is so sickly twisted. [01:35:01] i really greave the persons making all the work for this a-hole, just as with Fresco and his bunch of crooks [01:35:02] scrdcow so if i make product X its ok to ask $ 3 years long? [01:35:19] or for 30 years as some do LOL [01:35:20] lol, apparently? xD [01:35:38] Viper: if you want donations you want donations. it's up to people themselves to decide how much they want to donate. [01:35:47] Viper: and if they still want to support the project. [01:35:54] scrdcow agree but True fans? [01:36:06] Angels WTF [01:36:21] what is next if i send him 200$ a month he will pray for me? [01:36:22] Viper: well, yeah, the names are bull. but it's still names. [01:36:26] LOL, LOL and LOL again! [01:36:42] names mean alot [01:36:53] names are really important in some cases [01:37:12] and why every month donations? looks more like a company [01:37:18] greenpeace ask every month money too [01:37:20] haha [01:37:23] Viper: swedish pirate party want donations, lives and thrives on donations. they still need it even thou they didn't get into power here in sweden last election. they call people "gold pirates" or such. but who cares, it's just a name. [01:37:33] I'm fucking for virginity, pay me dollarz and i will throw you a nice title! [01:37:51] Viper: because they need money all the time to work on the stuff instead of getting a paid job and don't have time to work as intensly? [01:38:12] rubbish [01:38:15] Viper: it's still up to the people to donate if they feel they want to support. if you don't like what they are doing, don't donate. [01:38:19] scrdcow i know people from PP people that work for free there do really good job, but at top are lazzy ass [01:38:29] and i dont think if they get power will do some reall change [01:39:08] Viper: maybe not. but that wasn't what I was talking about. [01:39:21] politic system is fucked up [01:39:26] Viper: if you don't believe in their work as such or their work actually making a change. then don't donate. [01:39:39] its like shit. To get to the top you need enter shit. If you enter shit you are fucked up lol [01:39:53] Viper: ? [01:39:55] so i stay way from that shit [01:39:59] Viper: I don't follow you at all. [01:39:59] having a donation account and be transparent about consts and expected/calculated/anticipated costs is one thing, restricting information besed on monetary contributions and claiming to be Open Source in the same sentence is another animal alltogether [01:40:02] shit = politics [01:40:18] well fine. then don't donate to a politic party. [01:40:20] right [01:40:26] (but you complety missed my point) [01:40:46] i donate to the piracy party by mambership, but they never claim to be something they are definitely not [01:40:53] i dont see what OSE do with angels money and so on lol [01:41:07] Viper: because they want to work on it fulltime. [01:41:13] and thay are very open about what the money goes to in th PP [01:41:24] scrdcow they WORK or they Want to work? [01:41:46] then they can sell the real parts/products [01:41:55] i think they did work but now they stop working but do ask for $ [01:42:10] Viper: up to you to decide, read the blog, watch videos, check the wiki. is it going forward, does it seem good? ok fine, if not, then maybe not that good. [01:42:29] it's a service then, like Red Hat selling technical support or what not [01:42:44] but they sell believe [01:42:52] Angels and true fans LOL [01:42:56] Viper: ofcourse it's different with a "product" you can try out, like, and then later donate. but this is harder because you can't actually that easily try one out before you donate. but maybe in the future? [01:42:56] yeah [01:43:30] strange that angels are higher then gold [01:43:48] scrdcow: is it really a donation when you get access to stuff other's dont that don't pay? [01:43:52] Maybe Angels are made from Platinum+Gold? LOL [01:43:59] clue: NO FUCKING WAY [01:44:25] Viper: ok, maybe they haven't made as much progress. i'm not sure. I followed the project in the beginning but haven't since a couple of years. but was still suprised of what hey had done when seeing that TED talk video (I think, or maybe it was checking some video or such...) [01:44:26] that is a propriatary system, not an open one [01:45:02] Caly: is that the case? have you checked out or do you have a confirm on that? [01:45:03] so if i dont have $ i can fuck off ? [01:45:42] Caly: it was only loosely mentioned here in the chat, but never confirmed. [01:45:43] no they just didnt listed that viper [01:45:53] 0 usd must be devils [01:45:58] if 100 usd are angels [01:46:03] haha [01:46:08] heh [01:46:12] hey DNS :D [01:46:16] well, regardless, in an Open Source project, you NEVER remove stuff because there is a later version out there. [01:46:20] hey0 [01:46:40] they obvciously fail to live up to their name [01:46:44] ok guys you can talk here only if you donte to me [01:46:48] no money kick [01:46:52] haha [01:46:53] no money next time ban :D [01:46:53] lol [01:46:56] new policy [01:47:13] each line 10 cents [01:47:17] lol [01:47:25] Viper: you have to pay me to be a true kicker, or else i will consider your kicks false! [01:47:38] Caly: ofcourse they could have kept old version online yes. as said, I think they do terrible in that department. but I don't believe they aren't trying to be. [01:47:45] ok Caly i give you 10% hahahahahaa [01:47:53] xD [01:48:02] I don't see your guys problem. if you don't like them, then don't donate. [01:48:11] if you do, and think they do great work, donate. [01:48:13] scrdcow but they are good in counting money :D [01:48:28] adding donations and making movies [01:49:03] they sure did alot off technical work, but all specs used to be avaliable, step by step [01:49:28] where the fuck is it now o_O i'm baffeld... [01:49:54] i guess donation button took too much space [01:50:05] something need to make space for that ... LOL [01:50:25] well, i don't care much for all therse hierarchial capitalist parasite groups anyways, htere are so many real open projects to focus on. [01:50:40] http://openfarmtech.org.nyud.net/w/images/5/52/100fans.jpg <- you will never be on that piccy!!! [01:50:45] ;-) [01:50:56] only angels? [01:50:56] indeed [01:51:14] Caly: oh yeah... now they are capitalists aswell... ;-P [01:51:25] angles are fariry tale creatures, fantasies [01:51:29] sure [01:51:32] everyone that gets donations are capitalist or what weird definition are you using? [01:51:56] no, thay heavily promote what they call "Open capitalism" [01:52:35] ah ok, you mean they are in favor of capitalism. that could be true. [01:52:52] but many "open sourcers" are. [01:53:11] imo [01:53:13] Why none donate to me? [01:53:22] "We are in the business of distributive economics creation: our metric of success is how many people we can help to generate economically significant activities. When I say that open source is the next trillion dollar industry – I am serious in my commitment to develop or help develop the model of distributive production where we all work together to create open design, such that we can all have access to creating wealth – by reinv [01:53:22] enting local, responsible [01:53:28] i will use that money to get faster line LOL [01:53:32] "Open Capitalist Platform – This could be a huge step towards the scalable open source product development. First step would be to systems engineer this platform and communicate it as a comprehensive block diagram." [01:53:44] so i can download porn HAHAHAHA [01:54:23] they fail to se tha point of free and Open source [01:54:29] scrdcow, that was from their website [01:54:34] well.. I don't really agree. [01:54:48] capitalism has never been on ends with free software or open source. [01:54:53] do you fake agree? hehe [01:55:17] maybe you Angel agree haha [01:55:19] you can make money on free software and open source. [01:55:23] they used to call it postscarcity economy, but not sure how much left from this concept [01:55:25] imo, FOSS/OSH is in many ways RBE constitulents [01:56:03] Caly: it can play in both hands dependeng on what values you put into it or how it is created. [01:56:10] man i can use True/Gold/GoldExtra/Platinum/Angel for anything :D [01:56:58] google make money on free software too [01:57:03] it does not look good [01:57:08] decentralizing peer empowering tools for people to get out of the monetary addiction dogma [01:57:09] Caly: their is alot of "open businiess" models out their. some that is total bull (like open core) and some that arent, but are still about making money of their product/work but still releasing it free and/or open source. [01:58:06] open business in generall is about sharing resources for common good, does not by any means restrict values to monetary ones [01:58:07] now i have 5 levers of anything True/Gold/GoldExtra/Platinum/Angel [01:58:23] xD [01:59:09] Viper: if you give me larger donations, i priomise to come up with a few mor flashy labels to throw around. [01:59:18] haha [01:59:47] Viper: gimme ten grand and you will get to be my King of Angel Kings [01:59:59] lol [01:59:59] Caly: it's still business, you make money. [02:00:07] Caly: they make money on donations. [02:00:12] (and alot of others too) [02:00:15] no i dont like it kissing other people ass sorry xD [02:00:31] scrdcow: resources/fortune does not in any way equal money [02:00:47] Caly: well, burn your money, as you don't need them. [02:00:53] Caly: live on 0 sek. [02:00:59] huh? [02:01:11] no you need to be angel [02:01:18] if you are not angle you suck LOL [02:01:36] i'm just tired of people not realising that we still live in a capitalistic monetary system and actually most of us need money to actually do stuff. [02:01:36] later add it on facebook that you are angel :D [02:01:57] i never claimed i don't need them as for now, but i don't beg people to support me or take money in exchange for something i call open. [02:02:04] wanting away from that is what we strive for, but most of us still need cash for now. [02:02:13] scrdcow but WTF i you have more money i call you Angel, and other guy dont have it i call him Gold or something? [02:02:50] so maybe we add if you donate 1000. USD you are God? [02:02:52] scrdcow: there are a gazillion of open projects in development that don't think they need to parasite on others to be able to develop [02:02:57] Viper: yes, bad names, but thats the way it goes with donations, and I'm actually happy about that. because people with less money can donate less, or nothing at all. [02:03:09] Viper: we all have blender today becouse some rich ass donated 1 million USD or such. [02:03:12] for ex [02:03:32] this guy is like Fresco, wanting others to do his work for him and get paid by them at the same time. [02:03:41] Viper: our freesohop can now buy cabels etc because someone donated 500 sek, that is much more than anyone else have done. [02:03:42] i winder if he has any relation to Bill G [02:03:44] xD [02:04:07] scrdcow but you have no idea what they do with money of Angels [02:04:09] lol [02:04:26] Caly: ofcourse. you choose yourselfe but donations is still donations. [02:04:34] Caly: it's not a price you have to pay. [02:04:40] Viper: rebuilding paradise? [02:04:42] jk [02:04:43] not if you get a reward in excahnge [02:04:55] then it's not donations anymore. [02:04:59] scrdcow, just 2 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSOYm16v3PM - the ONLY reason why opensource exist is to make more money out of free solutions in words of the creators of it [02:04:59] Caly: it's something you donate if you like, but your not forced to. but alot of project can only work becauso of donations. [02:05:00] You4Tube 2[Title] Open Source Movement vs. Free Software 2[Category] Film 2[Duration] 0:01:57 2[Views] 18006 2[Rating] 4.78 2[Uploaded] 2007-04-04 2[Description] From 'RevolutionOS, the Linux story', a documentairy about Linux and Open Source [02:05:04] then it's a memenber fee [02:05:49] Viper: well sure. they should be all transparent. that is bad if they are note. [02:05:51] not* [02:05:54] so if you donate 0 = shit, 10 = crap, 50 = nobody, 100 = user, 500 = angel, 1000 = god haha [02:06:37] lukas: well, yes... it was created as a more business friendly term, and didn't want the focus on the ethics etc. I know all that. [02:06:59] lukas: that's why I don't like to use the term "open source" as such. [02:07:13] but maybe you need to refresh memory with words of the creators :) [02:07:14] but rbose is named rbose... I can't change that :-D [02:07:31] scrdcow name says NOTHING [02:07:37] its what people do not name [02:08:17] "These are very different concepts. Freedom is not the same as openness. You can abuse someone openly." - anybody said open business? [02:08:21] i think not everybody uses teh open source term to create money, but in case of software it was created basically some claimed to not confuse customers of free software, that they get software for "free" so they wanted to use open source bettter [02:08:22] Viper: soo... if I donate 100 USD to rbose, you will all call me a true fan, or maybe even an angel? ;-) [02:08:38] no only 500 are angel :D LOL [02:08:50] 100 = user [02:08:55] lol [02:09:14] so right now all are shit LOL [02:09:22] Damn. [02:09:23] Viper: ofcourse it's what people do, but the name "open source" has a different meaning to it than "free software" that's all. [02:09:50] hey BranManFloMore :) [02:11:03] btw scrdcow, we have been thinking about changing the "name" but we thought that maybe we could fix the oepnsource term by being an example [02:11:14] hehe [02:11:16] :) [02:11:23] hehe good luck with that ;-) [02:12:03] we hope that the message will be clear with this: http://dev.rbose.org/beta/ [02:12:21] I have no problem with people saying "open source", I just prefer "free software" since it's closer to what I want to convey. [02:13:21] No! Free software (with a capital F) is NOT freeware. It doesn't mean a program is free, in fact, distribution can cost you (I think). Free software is a term coined by Richard Stallman, and as the vid says, Open Source is just the name to present it to buisness men. But the thing is, OS movement, and FSF have different agendas. The difference being that FSF also focuses on the community (it fights DRM, for example), while OS movement cares (only) for the [02:13:22] economical advantages of FOSS [02:13:39] -nobody- maxvagabond has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [02:14:16] Viper: who were you talking to? [02:14:27] (or it was cut'n pasted?) [02:14:40] it was pasted [02:14:45] copy/past [02:14:46] ok [02:14:53] cant cut from website :P [02:15:03] wish i could lol [02:15:08] or sorry, copy'n paste yes [02:15:20] you can if it's a wiki, apparently OSE did ;-( [02:16:05] so we go for DRM free or make $ ? [02:16:19] anyways, my thoughts on openfarmtech thingie is that atleas I hope they will produce real decent blueprints etc, all that's needed in the future. [02:16:43] what would you like to do OS and make $ or FSF /copylet [02:16:53] I don't have enough money to donate, and I'm not planning to either. [02:17:07] Viper: what? I don't follow you at all. [02:17:36] so what do you think should we start ask for money? [02:17:41] rbose? [02:17:50] i am not from OSE lol [02:18:15] I have nothing against donations and use it myself when needed. [02:18:37] It prefer it much over a fixed price and if it's needed to actually help keep stuff alive. [02:18:39] so its ok if we start asking for donations? [02:18:55] it's a bit used in the village I live and it actually works here and I'm very happy for that. [02:19:07] strange some people still dont see what is rbose [02:19:13] Viper: I have no problem with that. [02:19:27] !rules [02:19:46] scrdcow did you see http://rbose.org/wiki/RBOSE:General_disclaimer ? [02:19:47] URL Title: RBOSE:Policy - RBOSE [02:19:47] Viper: but I don't think you need to make a big thing of it. a simple donation button is enough imo, and maybe flattr. [02:20:18] Viper: apparently not :-D [02:20:25] check please :) [02:20:28] I did. [02:20:34] so fast? lol [02:20:38] but that was my own views. [02:20:43] I jumped to the relevant point ;-) [02:21:06] when you depend on donations [02:21:14] you make buiseness from it [02:21:32] I prefer if people help out in other ways, but a donation is still a donation. some stuff cost money. but the work itself I would have a hard time talking money for. [02:21:33] then you focus not on sharing but making money... [02:21:36] as such. [02:21:49] it all depends on where you focus is. [02:21:51] so get more donations in place of share stuff [02:21:58] your* [02:22:40] now OSE work more on donations then on technology [02:23:19] asking for money is a trap [02:23:25] if that's the case, it's bad. but it doesn't mean everyone has to go that road. [02:24:44] some people can work on their spare time, some people want to try to work fulltime and see if it's possible with donations. usually it's not, but it can ease. and if people actually value what you do, and want, by themselv help out. I see no problem with that. but as more sharing going on, the less money you will need to live. [02:25:41] but I do differentiate between stuff that actually cost money and stuff that only is time put in. [02:25:55] especially with stuff here in the place I live. [02:27:02] some projects cost money and it's great when it works with donations. but if people would like to get payed for their work, when I want to work towards a gift economy of sorts, then I won't support as much anymore. [02:27:05] * lukas wonders what mother nature thinks about this ;) [02:28:36] but donations is way better than a fixed price imo. but the best, if it's possible. is ofcourse sharing if it can be done without the need of money. [02:29:18] so if i donate you more you do it as i wish? [02:29:32] scrdcow Who have most money? [02:30:10] i'm lucky I don't need to slave wage. and I can put time into stuff for free. but others here aren't that lucky and I understand their struggling to get their lives going. (it's a small village) [02:30:33] Viper: no, you donate if you like the stuff I do. not to dictate what I should do. [02:31:14] so i if i donate to X and not Z you work on X [02:31:18] fuck Z :D [02:31:36] Viper: well... it depends. myself I have only used donations when it comes to baking and cooking. [02:31:50] Viper: and the give-away shop I work at, but that's not me myself. [02:32:20] Viper: so people donate as a specific happening or such. but the money goes into my same pocket anyways so ;-) [02:32:28] Viper: at* [02:32:36] yes [02:32:48] but you will work more on the one getting more donations [02:33:05] Viper: but the money donated to the give-away shop doesn't go into our pockets but are saved for when needed to actually have the shop running. [02:33:25] scrdcow we talk about OSE or how they call now lol [02:33:38] i dont know much about that shop so cant say much sorry [02:34:42] Viper: no. but sure if I was deprived of money and really really needed. but maybe I wouldn't work with donations that way then ;-) but sure, if you become completly dependent on donations and suddenly they dissapear and you find yourself without any way to make a living, well.. it's hard. etiher you quit or you try to boost donations. [02:35:29] Viper: well. people leave stuff, and can take stuff, free of charge. we have bucket of sorts that says "we don't need much money, but some are needed. please donate if youw ant to" that's all. [02:36:08] Viper: it's just sits their. before we had it people (some) wanted to donate anyways. this way it's easier. [02:36:51] Viper: I have also put money into the shop myself as a donater, still I work the most I think (atleast top 3 :-D). [02:38:01] nice :) [02:38:13] Viper: the only problem I have with donations is when they are used (can be compared to OSE perhaps) in a manner to only get payed, and to try to put guilt on people not donating, and not trying to keep costs low etc. [02:38:29] Viper: I want donations to be a way to go from fixed value/price to a more gift economy. [02:38:43] Viper: if you try to leave cheap etc. [02:39:05] Caly once pasted a nice article... let me look for that... [02:39:42] Viper: when the shop is open we now also have dinner server, folk kitchen, most of the food is dumpstered and some is grown, so we try to keep cost down. but still some money is needed. [02:39:48] served* [02:39:52] dinner server lol [02:40:25] Viper: but somehow I feel more comfortable with people donating food etc than money if they can, or if they want to help out. [02:40:30] lukas: on what? [02:41:07] yeah donate stuff is better then money [02:41:15] mostly it end in pocket of director [02:41:49] yes [02:42:21] the stuff can only be used what's it's for. [02:42:22] i never trust in donations doing good work [02:42:41] its like cheating [02:42:53] hehe [02:42:58] you go pray in church and all is fine so now people dont pray but donate [02:43:08] and think they did something good (believe) [02:43:38] well, we also organise forest parties, raves, sometimes. before I have put out most money to make it happen. people come, all is fine. [02:43:49] but it's not doable in the long run since I don't have that amount. [02:43:52] all the time. [02:44:41] so the only way to make it happen is through donations. I don't like the idea of having a fixed entrence fee at all, I wouldn't engange in it that way. [02:44:54] then the rest interested can do it :-P [02:45:17] why not ask for stuff that you need for that forest partie? [02:45:28] *parties [02:45:41] becouse nat all stuff can be gotten for free. [02:45:43] not* [02:45:56] that's the problem. we don't live in a complete gift economy. [02:46:04] someone has to buy something. [02:46:15] but maybe some one have it? [02:46:23] or can share it [02:46:31] yes, if they can lend it, it's fine. but not everyting can be borrowed. [02:46:50] and sometimes people don't like to lend stuff all the time, and we end up having to buy it ourselves. [02:47:01] or maybe we break stuff. [02:47:07] and have to pay for that. [02:47:38] and good sound, we won't get that for free. we could go together and buy better equipment, but we don't have that kind of money. [02:49:32] another option is tto develop a system where we just klick "print" and get a copy of whatever we wish [02:49:38] but certainly we try to keep costs low, but not to low since it won't be a great party. [02:49:59] huh? [02:50:14] Caly: ? [02:50:30] lending and buyin is scarsity based notions [02:50:46] yes [02:50:54] in some cases. [02:51:10] well technically in all, but doable.. well... [02:51:28] (but that's a whole different discussion). [02:51:48] I have to sleep I guess. [02:52:11] w00t iam not sleeping? crap [02:52:21] guys donate to me :D [02:52:28] lol [02:52:42] 2000 USD and i give you nick God :D [02:52:47] whahaha [02:53:31] *** scrdcow is now known as God [02:53:34] hah! [02:53:37] I saved 2000 USD! [02:53:58] *** Quits: God (scrdcow@RBOSE-11g.ogf.180.213.IP) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Viper!Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE))) [02:54:04] lol [02:54:18] lol [02:54:48] btw any one can ghost other one using his nick [02:55:50] i need to register Santa Angel too lol [02:56:01] Caly it was the one abut development and money, written i think by one guy, with questions which sound something like "if all people would only donate, who the heck would be doing the job?" [02:56:24] Viper, lol [02:56:49] and TrueRBOSE [02:56:57] is Pope still free? [02:57:07] yeah it is [02:57:11] lol [02:58:09] *** Viper is now known as Peer [02:58:18] :D [02:59:19] lukas: mkay... show me if you find it later then =) [02:59:23] going to bed here [02:59:29] gn folks [02:59:38] gn :) [02:59:56] good night Caly [03:00:05] almost fell asleep in my chair [03:00:07] Goodnite. [03:00:14] been out protesting all day [03:00:22] protesting? [03:00:25] yeah [03:00:30] About gas prices? [03:00:48] about what if you don't mind to tell? [03:01:29] about a crappy social insurance reform that is rendering alot of people homeless, unemployed, broke and broken as soon as they get sick or ill [03:01:55] right wing government [03:02:18] not a very big demo, i can upload some photos tomorrow [03:02:43] too tired now, gn [03:03:16] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-r9phbn.bredband.skanova.com) (Quit: Leaving) [03:03:17] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Quit: Leaving) [03:03:23] lukas Ghost is a nice nick too :D [03:03:35] :) [03:05:39] i've been reading today about some polices, you don't imagine, or maybe you do, but there are laws here saying that you should get insurance for lawnmower and dozens of other garden/home equipment [03:15:18] yeah [03:15:31] can i go shit with no insurance? haha [03:46:22] http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/22/165217/How-People-Broadcast-Their-Locations-Without-Meaning-To [03:46:23] URL Title: How People Broadcast Their Locations Without Meaning To - Slashdot [04:40:23] *** Quits: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [04:53:49] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Client exited) [07:11:43] *** Joins: Nanos (nanos.org.uk@RBOSE-44p4co.adsl.brightview.com) [07:15:26] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) [07:23:04] http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/04/what-does-iq-really-measure.html [07:23:05] URL Title: What Does IQ Really Measure? - ScienceNOW [07:23:11] morning kalken :) [07:32:19] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-p3sak8.mweb.co.za) [07:32:53] FAT64: morning :D [07:36:11] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [08:00:35] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-p3sak8.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) [08:03:05] YOU'RE THE PASSION IN MY LIFE RBOSE [08:03:06] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk1Ddpo6dYg [08:03:07] You4Tube 2[Title] careless whisper [romantic instrumental] 2[Category] Entertainment 2[Duration] 0:04:17 2[Views] 431516 2[Rating] 4.93 2[Uploaded] 2009-09-17 2[Description] Careless Whisper Lyrics ♥ Time can never mend the careless whispers of a good friend To the heart and mind, ignorance is kind there's no comfort in the truth pain is all you'll find Should've known better I feel so unsure as I take your hand and lead you to [08:34:08] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [08:34:12] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: Ex-Chat) [08:52:32] *** Quits: Nanos (nanos.org.uk@RBOSE-44p4co.adsl.brightview.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [09:31:20] http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-real-reason-apple-is-suing-samsung-2011-4 [09:31:21] URL Title: Here's The Real Reason Apple Is Suing Samsung [09:46:46] *** Joins: Absalom (Absalom@RBOSE-fb2tr7.lavasoft.net) [09:55:40] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [10:02:00] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-cna.aje.27.41.IP) [10:18:01] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-cna.aje.27.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [10:26:45] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [10:40:51] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [10:42:08] *** Joins: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [10:42:08] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [10:42:08] *** nairboon_ is now known as nairboon [10:42:52] *** Joins: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-rii1jm.swipnet.se) [10:44:15] *** Quits: mutanton (mutanton@RBOSE-4l00an.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [10:50:38] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Client exited) [12:33:17] 03<14magnetron@FREENODE03> i mentioned permaculture to my mother during the holidays. apparently she went to a permaculture lecture during a gardening conference, signing up without any idea what it was. two 20-30 year old guys with rasta plaits [12:47:08] signing up [12:47:13] that's cool [13:46:20] .c [13:46:20] *** Parts: lukas (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [13:46:20] *** Joins: lukas (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [13:56:09] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-r9phbn.bredband.skanova.com) [13:56:28] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [14:30:55] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [15:01:16] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cesarminoru/protei-open-hardware-oil-spill-cleaning-sailing-ro [15:01:20] URL Title: Protei, Open Hardware Oil Spill Cleaning Sailing Robot by Cesar Harada Kickstarter [15:30:07] *** Quits: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-rii1jm.swipnet.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [16:52:23] http://www.newhousefarm.tv/ [16:52:24] URL Title: Newhouse Farm - Sustainable Living & Green Technology Courses in Cornwall. [17:03:59] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [17:04:00] *** Joins: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [17:07:01] *** Joins: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-ri7eb6.95-103-72.t-com.sk) [17:21:45] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) [17:35:56] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [17:35:56] *** Quits: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [17:37:02] *** Joins: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [17:37:02] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [17:37:02] *** nairboon_ is now known as nairboon [18:11:05] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [18:11:30] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [18:21:14] *** Quits: Absalom (Absalom@RBOSE-fb2tr7.lavasoft.net) (Quit: Leaving) [18:22:05] *** Joins: mutanton (mutanton@RBOSE-4l00an.bredband.comhem.se) [18:37:42] -nobody- tropology has quit FREENODE (Quit: tropology) [18:43:22] *** Joins: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [18:43:22] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [18:43:22] *** nairboon_ is now known as nairboon [18:44:27] *** Joins: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [18:44:27] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [18:44:27] *** nairboon_ is now known as nairboon [18:48:22] *** Peer is now known as Viper [18:49:54] hello folks [18:50:28] wb Viper [18:50:45] ty Kebap23 :) [19:04:43] hi guys, been working more on this: http://dev.rbose.org/beta/projects/list [19:06:02] we need better images, less eye catchy, more fiting into background :D [19:07:47] -nobody- Kebap23 has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [19:08:28] *** Joins: idk (idk@RBOSE-5or8k8.mobileonline.telia.com) [19:10:34] *** Quits: Kebap23 (Max@RBOSE-ckjoj3.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [19:12:47] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-m9943m.adsl.alicedsl.de) [19:13:06] -nobody- Kebap23 has joined on FREENODE [19:18:30] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [19:19:01] *** Joins: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [19:30:06] cool lukas [19:47:38] glad you like it Kebap :) [19:48:14] if you hguys have any ideas/suggestion, please share them, it can speed up progress there [19:50:46] *** Joins: nairboon_ (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) [19:50:46] *** Quits: nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) (Connection closed) [19:50:46] *** nairboon_ is now known as nairboon [19:57:28] guys, as well this: http://dev.rbose.org/supybot/graphs/developmentmap.png -- we want to create development maps for all th technologies, it's just started, would be cool if somebody would like to help with it - criteria for the relatios on the maps (ass well classes of information it should present), list of items and relations are required there, all help welcome [20:00:04] so the projects can be presented in context, how they are connected with the rest, and suggest for example what one can do once he/she is point X and has access to A,B,C [20:15:58] Kebap, would you be interested in such research? [20:17:07] these maps cane be drawn directly from the irc [20:17:47] and it's imple like writing: ~add item 1 -> item 2 [20:18:40] if anybody want to help, let me know guys :) [20:26:02] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) [20:32:22] lukas: what char triggers supybot's attention? [20:32:51] ~natural building -> bamboo [20:32:51] idk: Error: "natural" is not a valid command. [20:33:03] ~natural_building -> bamboo [20:33:03] idk: Error: "natural_building" is not a valid command. [20:33:12] ~list [20:33:12] Viper: Admin, Channel, Config, Graphviz, Misc, Owner, and User [20:33:18] ~add natural building -> bamboo [20:33:19] idk: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. [20:33:32] ^^ [20:33:35] ~list graphviz [20:33:35] Viper: add, close, listedges, render, replace, setrenderer, and start [20:45:35] idk, the plugin lacks there a few features and requires feedback from people who would like to help with testing so i restricted it at firs, exception can be added if you want to give it a try, i could add as well history to this plugin so changes could be reversed if something would go wrong [20:46:31] ~add natural building -> bamboo [20:46:31] lukas: Item 1: natural building | Item2: bamboo [20:46:35] ~render [20:46:37] lukas: The operation succeeded. [20:47:32] lukas: would be fun to test it out, but i wont be able this week :/ [20:47:45] nice idea tho [20:48:02] ok :) [20:48:14] ill be more free after june month [20:49:47] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [20:50:00] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: Ex-Chat) [20:50:04] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [20:50:14] dirt, fix your client [21:01:34] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [21:04:50] ,seen Absalom [21:04:50] idk: Absalom was last seen in #RBOSE 7 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 51 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: * Absalom ignores :P [21:05:17] 7 weeks ago? thats not correct :O [21:05:23] *** Joins: Kimsan_ (kim@RBOSE-rii1jm.swipnet.se) [21:05:23] *** Joins: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-rii1jm.swipnet.se) [21:05:28] *** Quits: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-rii1jm.swipnet.se) (Connection closed) [21:05:31] i talked to him last week [21:05:32] ,any absolom [21:05:32] Viper: I have not seen absolom. [21:05:35] *** Kimsan_ is now known as Kimsan [21:05:38] ,any absalom [21:05:39] Viper: absalom was last seen in #RBOSE 2 hours, 44 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: *** Absalom has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [21:08:52] thanks Viper [21:09:16] *** Quits: Ades (andersburlin@RBOSE-5hj.9kd.99.82.IP) (Connection closed) [21:21:30] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Quit: Leaving) [22:00:16] *** Joins: Ades (andersburlin@RBOSE-5hj.9kd.99.82.IP) [22:00:33] http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1303842752889.jpg [22:03:46] *** Quits: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-rii1jm.swipnet.se) (Quit: Lämnar) [22:14:27] *** Quits: hakufu (asdasd@RBOSE-32dg8q.bredband.comhem.se) (Connection closed) [22:14:42] *** Quits: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-ri7eb6.95-103-72.t-com.sk) (Connection closed) [22:23:36] *** Quits: idk (idk@RBOSE-5or8k8.mobileonline.telia.com) (Quit: Lost terminal) [23:10:35] https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/gnu < some gnash dev snapshots [23:10:36] URL Title: GNU : DNS [23:31:13] Hey DNS [23:38:33] hey viper [23:55:50] 03<14magnetron@FREENODE03> hey girl, hey boy [23:56:18] enstop dijay, hurr we goo