[00:00:34] hi :D [00:03:05] kman: whuzzup man? [00:13:26] * comotion now has DNS [00:13:27] :-) [00:15:23] lukas_: Endgame points about violence also stir some .. disagreement.. in me but they still spur discussion: even pacifists must draw a line somewhere? [00:17:06] Caly/ lukas_ : state == fascism [00:18:34] comotion, i'm personally against violence, there are other ways to deal with problems, using more brain to protect yourself than muscles, that part of the video was controversial for me i need to say [00:25:16] comotion, this might be an interesting perspective for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZJIzWbOzdw [00:25:17] You4Tube 2[Title] True News: The 'Violence' of the G20 Protests 2[Category] Nonprofit 2[Duration] 0:16:46 2[Views] 7838 2[Rating] 4.93 2[Uploaded] 2010-06-29 2[Description] Putting 2 burning cars in perspective... References: http://freedomainradio.com/BOARD/forums/t/26354.aspx [00:28:36] europeanrevolution.net is a perfect example of a censored site ! [00:31:07] one guy from #fsfeurope said that it's possible they set something wrong, let me get a quote [00:31:48] [19:21:10] holland and sweden blocked it or did someone simply forgot to update the nameservers in the whois... [00:32:07] [19:21:35] resolves just fine: dig europeanrevolution.net @ns0.1984.is +short [00:34:19] for you that can't reach it cause it's censored, I made: http://eurev.delta9.pl/ [00:34:20] URL Title: European Revolution [00:35:32] Caly, could you give it a try? [00:36:14] works [00:37:09] but links don't work =/ [00:45:51] lukas_: the one thing I disagree deeply with is "attack them head on"... I do not see that as a wise strategy [00:46:43] Caly: I can't rewrite the content :-( [00:46:59] they wrote the site wrong to have absolute links [00:47:25] hmm looks like it's better now [00:51:46] mkay? [00:55:09] comotion, are you referring to that book? [00:56:13] lukas_: haven't read the book [00:56:46] then to the endgame video? [00:56:50] Caly: I can resolve the site from here, must have been some blip. but their links contain the hostname, makes it harder to proxy [00:56:54] lukas_: yes [01:00:37] Caly: do you need a jumphost? [01:00:49] i had discussion today with Viper about this, the problem with violence from my perspective is that if you use violence in such a way, even if you "win", you end up surrounded with people using violence, and that doesn't look any better than the pre-condition from my perspective but i can be wrong, my perspective is theoretical, never been in such a situation [01:01:11] * comotion plans to provide an anonymizer but it won't be free-for-all, but rather web-of-trust [01:01:30] nice [01:01:34] lukas_: I agree wholeheartedly, violence begets violence [01:01:35] jumphost? for? [01:01:45] Caly: if you have a censored line [01:02:03] not that i know of, but i do like anonymity =) [01:02:07] `ssh -CD8080 jumphost` makes for a real nice p2p proxy [01:02:08] comotion: Error: "ssh" is not a valid command. [01:02:19] that's too bad nobody [01:03:05] lukas_: however if you are gonna be christian about it and turn the other cheek they will win by force [01:03:38] so there has to be a place where you draw a line, where you start fighting back [01:04:15] that is very possible, but what you would say for example for such a trick for if you would organize a protest: [01:05:01] I am and have been a chickenshit before... and whenever I get angry I also get real scared.. but I recently had to chase some fascists out of our goodly locale, and I did it with the strength of numbers and the threat of violence [01:05:55] but the fact is that the threat of violence is nothing if you are bluffing, and people who are trained to violence (read: police, criminals, etc) WILL call your bluff [01:07:35] lukas_: I don't know, I don't know how to turn it around, to win a better tomorrow for us all we need to get rid of state.. and because I don't know (yet), I am not organizing the protest [01:08:19] you make a big transparent "police families are here with us" or something like that, you then get a lot of impostors just to say they are kids and wifes of police guys, they would use ofc all the monitoring they have to check, but you never can be sure! and that could drastically make the police guys think what they would do to their "fake" families or in front of their eyes, and you use megaphones to make it clear to the mases ...and to the guys with gas and [01:08:20] guns ;) [01:09:16] lukas_: I like your hack, nice! you should post it down to spain, maybe it will help them there in the days to come [01:10:04] all the time I watched the brutal videos I was thinking: the biggest target should be giving those in the police force back their humanity [01:10:30] exactly [01:10:32] ie taking off their masks, stripping them of everything [01:10:47] divide and conquer [01:11:25] the police will use any resistance as an excuse to put in heavier measures [01:11:43] divide the police force and strip them [01:12:45] cause really, the police on the street has more in common with the protester, only difference is they have a job and a helmet [01:13:26] i said today to Viper that people now have more cameras and better ones than police often have, millions of eyes watching, i would try get an id and photos of every police guy, and put that on the web [01:14:50] i don't know if these guys have any sense of humane responsibility or just duty to obey to authorities [01:15:31] lukas_: they are "just doing their job" [01:16:06] yeah, i heard that directly few times :| [01:16:23] they are fascists... but I realized that any one of us can be fascist, the philosophy is murky today [01:16:42] most people no longer know or care what that means [01:18:13] have you seen maybe this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV57aZmKORk ? [01:18:14] You4Tube 2[Title] The Nazis - A Warning From History | Episode 1 | Part 1 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:15:00 2[Views] 23744 2[Rating] 4.78 2[Uploaded] 2011-01-02 2[Description] This video has no description. [01:18:43] hehe no but I have met many "neo-nazis" [01:18:56] neo is just old nazi today [01:20:09] I have had philosophical discussions with people who identify with nazism [01:20:29] i watched it last days, i would say it's a good one, many interviews with people, i was shocked a bit with few things there [01:21:34] god, family, fatherland = religion, mafia, state. to believe in these is to reject the notion that we are all equal [01:23:17] and that thought, that some people are better, is very creepily indirect in all those [01:27:20] word [01:27:29] good night folk [01:27:34] *folks [01:28:23] good night Caly :) [01:28:32] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-e51eni.bredband.skanova.com) (A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.) [01:28:33] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Remote host closed the connection) [01:29:38] comotion, i think the families can be different, non violent, no coercion, no abuse and no indoctrination, we do our best, it's amazing experience, but i don't know what will be the result, it's totally different thing than how i was growing up, sometimes i worry about the limits, don't know how to express that, seems that giving warm and love and your time works best for any trouble [01:36:20] i think if we would not care so much, there would be just a brutal world as the only options, plastic guns, knights, kings, prisons, police and thefts, tanks and fighters, bombs and knifes, ... - i cannot understand why parents do that to their own kids, we find toy weapon even when we go to a medical doctor, i always hide hide these toys first and comment to parents "why we grow our kids to violence?" [01:38:22] so far my son has no blind idea what is a gun, unfortunately very unusual :(( [01:46:05] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Family_as_a_model_for_the_state :| [01:46:07] URL Title: Family as a model for the state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [01:53:26] London tonight http://entoptika.co.uk/2011/05/29/europeanrevolution/ [01:53:28] URL Title: European Revolution entoptika [02:04:27] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/all-your-reviews-are-belong-to-us-medical-justice-vs-patient-free-speech.ars [02:04:28] lukas_'s URL: http://x0.no/1ysn [02:04:29] URL Title: Doctors and dentists tell patients, "all your review are belong to us" [02:11:12] https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/21-4 [02:11:14] URL Title: Osama bin Laden’s Death: There is Much More to Say | Common Dreams [02:11:31] by Noam Chomsky ^ [02:37:09] lukas_: families are not necessarily fascistic. it's the slogans and traditional values that are insidious. viloence is a very real part of life, I do not know if hiding it from your kids is going to do much good [02:37:21] then again I do not have kids [03:07:53] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: ) [04:21:10] *** Quits: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [04:35:56] *** Quits: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [06:10:10] *** Joins: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) [06:54:46] *** Quits: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [07:01:26] *** Joins: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) [07:16:04] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-kcrnfo.mweb.co.za) [07:37:34] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-kcrnfo.mweb.co.za) (Connection closed) [08:39:00] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [08:52:11] *** Quits: jscinoz (jscinoz@RBOSE-rdhsrj.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [09:11:37] *** Joins: LibreMan_ (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) [09:15:59] *** Quits: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [10:00:03] *** Joins: jscinoz (jscinoz@RBOSE-rdhsrj.tpgi.com.au) [10:45:48] *** Joins: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) [10:50:10] *** Quits: LibreMan_ (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [10:55:49] *** Joins: V (qwebirc@RBOSE-97l8gs.col.wideopenwest.com) [11:03:51] *** Quits: V (qwebirc@RBOSE-97l8gs.col.wideopenwest.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [11:18:40] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [11:33:28] *** Joins: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [11:34:15] hi everyone :) [11:34:28] hi :) [11:41:22] Hi guys [11:42:07] comotion, i just think that feeding kids with violence what i call "the education to violence" and resulting unconscious acceptance of it when they are very young is sick. Today kids at age of 2-... know how to punch other people, cut them into pieces with pirates swards, do a hole in stomach, shut to death - most know that before they are able to make a sandwich themselves, wash their body or clean after poo. And i keep asking my self how insane this is? [11:43:49] Oh i forgot about bombs and explosions, that is so impressive! jk :| [11:46:12] ofc changing the environment around kids will eventually change them also [11:46:51] You probably have seen parents falling down on the grass and laughing "you killed me!" when their kids play with imitations of machine guns... [11:47:03] giving a 4-5 year old kid a war-game on their computer might not be the best solution... [11:47:55] lukas_: yes. That is what scares me the most. That messed up parents are parenting their kids to be the same :D [11:48:19] people are not born evil. Thats something they learn [11:49:02] exactly kalken, but even arcade games are about killing bees, snails, killing flies, killing this and that, ... we really cannot give them anything else than virtual killing to get some pleasure? I never seen an adventure game where you not kill something :( [11:50:10] sorry kalken people are not born??? LOL [11:51:36] Even tux is exterminator of other beings in so many games. :| Few times a minute or a second! [11:53:43] My kid loves to play with machines, i found something like "incredible machines" so he can connect different machines, generators, engines, ropes, solar panels, lasers, springs, balls, and a lot of other stuff, and see what it will produce. Was a really a nice fun... [11:55:04] ...until the levels with crocodiles eating small kids, cannons, guns, remote explosion devices and flying bombs and rockets. [11:55:47] And ofc the nitroglycerin! [11:57:49] Best education packet i have see so far is gcopmris - it is so customizable that you can disable easily with admin interface stuff you don't like and extend it through plugins you can create (i did not yet create yet any). [12:00:29] http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&q=kids+gun&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=1 :((( [12:00:30] URL Title: kids gun - Google Search [12:13:21] i planed to learn my son self defense techniques (for example karate) to protect himself, but this cannot happen from my perspective until he is showing at least first symptoms of self control capabilities - kids at age 3-4 are on some kind of stage where there is a need for separation, non conformism, shaping own individuality, testing limits in life, from my perspective better if you don't need to fight with your kids - think what you can achieve by that? [12:13:23] there is a saying that a kid can be only against parents, or inline with them - there is a lot of shit about breaking character of a person or animal in order to control it, but think about respect for olders (do not confuse with authority), think about life time relation with kids, they will be the leaders in future [12:37:24] http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-05-30-germany-nuclear-power_n.htm nice move! [12:37:25] URL Title: Germany to abandon nuclear power by 2022 - USATODAY.com [12:42:09] Evil, but fuel costs will go probably up now [12:42:52] lukas_ maybe its better [12:43:03] people will look for other sources of energy [12:44:40] true, but at cost of some people exploiting situation meanwhile [13:39:41] *** Quits: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [13:41:49] *** Joins: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [14:57:22] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-e51eni.bredband.skanova.com) [14:57:40] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [15:09:07] *** Quits: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: ) [15:25:59] *** Joins: LibreMan_ (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) [15:30:21] *** Quits: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [15:54:46] http://www.bilderbergips.org/ [15:54:47] URL Title: BilderbergIPS - Independent Press Summary [16:10:48] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-alhnao.mweb.co.za) [16:15:24] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-alhnao.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) [16:29:41] *** Joins: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) [16:34:02] *** Quits: LibreMan_ (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [16:39:57] lukas: that is insane indeed.. our society is permeated by cheap sex and gratuitous violence and I see how hard it is to stay away from that stuff oneself, let alone keep kids away from it. [16:40:10] bridge constructor set, the incredible machine and other games of the kind are real cool [17:38:00] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-81lavj.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [17:38:01] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-svvuvq.adsl.alicedsl.de) [17:38:06] -nobody- Kebap23 has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [17:42:09] -nobody- Kebap23 has joined on FREENODE [19:10:30] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [19:10:59] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: Ex-Chat) [19:11:04] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [19:14:31] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [19:33:05] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) [20:52:27] kman: o/ whattcha doin' ? [20:52:44] Having a little glass o wine, relaxing. [20:52:48] Wud up man [20:54:11] ^^ [21:01:35] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-nmv.h0a.27.41.IP) [21:08:40] kalken, you moved in with FAT64 yet? [21:10:10] get da keys tomorrow :D [21:12:09] Awesome. [21:12:39] Might be going to gothenburg this summer. Would be nice to come cook some awesome vegan food for you guys. [21:12:53] oh, please do :D [21:16:00] Going there for a climbing/ biking trip i think.. [21:16:55] hönö is nice :D [21:17:36] Yeah hönö is a real beauty. [21:17:43] Love the serenity of that place.. [21:18:04] Sand stone, kelp, waves, wonderful people [21:19:07] i was climbing bouldering there a few years ago [21:19:10] really nice [21:23:27] Hows the guitarrplaying going btw? [21:23:33] Recorded anything? [21:24:08] na. will probably start some post-rock project this summer [21:24:39] maybe turns as metall, i dont know xD [21:26:54] Sounds great! Main thing is to make music the entire band can represent and have fun doing, right? [21:27:04] Where you end up is less important in that way ^^ [21:30:28] indeed :D [21:30:36] just want to get that feeling of just being [21:30:41] then everything is good [21:30:55] and that goes for more than music :D [21:31:59] Yeah.. I know the feeling ^^ [22:03:00] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-nmv.h0a.27.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [22:29:38] -nobody- tropology_ has joined on FREENODE [22:29:47] -nobody- tropology has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:29:53] -nobody- nick change by tropology_ to tropology on FREENODE [22:32:55] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [22:44:20] *** Joins: JoshStrobl (qwebirc@RBOSE-68b.ovv.19.72.IP) [22:44:37] Hello peeps [22:46:40] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [22:50:20] hi joppos [22:51:05] hi joppos :D [22:52:07] haha, i meant hi JoshStrobl =P [22:52:18] lol [22:52:38] autocompete ftw \o/ [22:59:00] .c [22:59:00] *** Parts: DNS (DNS777@NetAdmin.RBOSE) [22:59:00] *** Joins: DNS (DNS777@NetAdmin.RBOSE) [22:59:03] say wo0t [22:59:05] hi guys [23:01:16] *** Joins: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [23:13:55] *** Quits: LibreMan (quassel@RBOSE-0f14j8.178-40-29.t-com.sk) (Connection closed) [23:28:52] Keyboard clean..much better [23:33:40] removed all those nasty symbols and changed to dvorak? [23:35:19] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: ) [23:39:54] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [23:50:55] *** Quits: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) (Connection closed) [23:52:37] http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html [23:52:38] URL Title: Johanna Blakley: Lessons from fashions free culture | Video on TED.com