[00:13:12] *** Quits: Carnivore (qwebirc@RBOSE-eb3hlc.res.rr.com) (Quit: Page closed) [00:49:42] wow aue , those both sounded terrific! [00:53:58] it is interesting that they learn polish in venezuela ;) http://www.workaway.info/14339231554b-en.html [00:53:59] URL Title: Fantastic opportunity to volunteer and help in the Jungles of Venezuela. Webmaster, web design, Bar keeper, Guides. - workaway.info [01:29:33] cool [01:30:27] *** Quits: aue (qWEBirc@RBOSE-vdtbe0.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Page closed) [01:31:36] *** Quits: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: ) [01:31:36] http://www.pcworld.com/article/229174/windows_tablets_is_microsoft_being_a_control_freak.html [01:31:37] URL Title: Windows Tablets: Is Microsoft Being a Control Freak? | PCWorld [01:33:02] the hardware against software freedom as Moglen in 2004 was describing it to be [01:33:25] yup [01:49:31] http://stallman.org/archives/2011-mar-jun.html#01_June_2011_%28Urgent:_Help_End_the_War_on_Drugs%29 [01:49:33] URL Title: 2011: March - June Political Notes - Richard Stallman [02:17:31] yesterday, in Paris, civil society threw together an impromptu press conference, featuring Harvard's Larry Lessig, La Quadrature du Net's Jérémie Zimmermann, CUNY's Jeff Jarvis, former ICANN board member/former White House advisor Susan Crawford, Reporters Without Borders' Jean-François Julliard, and Harvard's Yochai Benkler. The spirt of the event was captured by Lessig. Business is important, the professor argued. But there are more than the interests of [02:17:33] just business at stake when it comes to the future of the global network. "There's also the people who built the Internet," Lessig went on. And, "they just aren't here." [02:17:46] http://vimeo.com/24218524 [02:17:47] URL Title: [EN] La société civile s'en va t'en guerre à l' e-G8 on Vimeo [02:17:54] DNS ^ [02:28:23] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-e51eni.bredband.skanova.com) (Quit: Leaving) [02:28:24] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Quit: Leaving) [03:19:21] \0/ [03:33:01] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Civil_societies [03:33:03] URL Title: Civil society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [03:33:11] oh gosh [03:33:21] what FAT64? [03:33:22] been up here watching learning studying painting over wallpapers [03:33:24] :D [03:33:36] gonna get up in 5hrs and start working, :D:D:D looking forward [03:33:46] :) [03:33:54] :P [03:33:56] you probably an expert [03:34:01] since you live in a house lol [03:35:25] FAT64, when you get the time maybe tomorrow, please take a look at the vimeo link, might be quite important [03:35:52] FAT64 just Evil paint it, not so hard. [03:36:44] Evil, interesting definition in that last wiki link, nothing like that is strong here [03:37:12] nope, but when we're done moving we will! :D [03:37:25] thanks and goodnight [03:37:33] good night FAT64 :) [03:37:59] :> [03:38:02] love ya evil! [03:38:16] Civil society is composed of the totality of voluntary social relationships, [03:38:35] good night FAT64 :) [03:55:31] *** Quits: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: good night) [04:16:40] -nobody- nick change by Out`Of`Control to Viper on FREENODE [04:27:06] *** Quits: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.) [05:01:10] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-j7p.l0u.132.41.IP) [07:25:47] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape2 (sixth_ape@RBOSE-alhnao.mweb.co.za) [07:28:55] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape2 (sixth_ape@RBOSE-alhnao.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) [09:15:46] *** Joins: Antilect (Antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [11:07:03] *** Joins: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [11:07:23] hi folks [11:44:27] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-8ik.q4h.29.41.IP) [12:00:31] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-8ik.q4h.29.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [12:30:50] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsGyueVLvQ [12:30:51] You4Tube 2[Title] Sintel - Third Open Movie by Blender Foundation 2[Category] Film 2[Duration] 0:14:48 2[Views] 2384455 2[Rating] 4.94 2[Uploaded] 2010-09-30 2[Description] "Sintel" is an independently produced short film, initiated by the Blender Foundation as a means to further improve and validate the free/open source 3D creation suite Blender. With initial funding provided by 1000s of donations via the internet community, it has [12:31:19] haven't seen yet but just have found about it [12:33:31] hey lukas_ :) [12:34:38] hi Evil :) [12:35:17] fukk, they want to make a video to stimulate community and came up with such a violent shit again [12:36:01] https://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/26621 [12:36:03] URL Title: Sintel, 4k edition (and why its useful) - Creative Commons [12:37:17] i had hoped that maybe younger audience can see it, but no comment [12:40:55] lol [12:53:48] *** Joins: aue (qWEBirc@RBOSE-vdtbe0.adsl.tpnet.pl) [12:53:58] Hi guys:) [12:56:02] hey aue :) [12:58:22] have you got link for spanish police versus pacifistic residence people in youtube, i would like to show somebody [12:58:30] ??? [12:59:02] aue just past link :) [12:59:12] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-e51eni.bredband.skanova.com) [12:59:16] umm [12:59:21] Hi Caly [12:59:27] i think i have wait [13:00:32] hi aue [13:01:44] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cvnTgdQtj0 [13:01:45] You4Tube 2[Title] Dark Ages_ 2010 Uprisings in EU just a start, Revolutions in 2011/2012 are coming 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:03:51 2[Views] 4 2[Rating] None 2[Uploaded] 2011-06-01 2[Description] This video has no description. [13:02:35] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [13:03:13] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSZQzvU6CxI [13:03:14] You4Tube 2[Title] Spanish protest at dropping living standards (21-May-11)(REVOLUTIONARY TIMES series - Social Unrest) 2[Category] News 2[Duration] 0:03:52 2[Views] 1272 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2011-05-22 2[Description] This is a 'YOUSEARXCH 'SUPPORT' and 'FEEDER' channel providing 'GENERAL' 'FREE' and easy 'ACCESS' to 'QUALITY' 'NEWS', 'CURRENT EVENTS' 'LECTURES and other important and interesting 'INFORMATION largely ignored [13:05:39] *** Joins: God (___@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [13:06:32] * Evil God [13:06:34] LOL [13:07:42] * God Evil [13:21:39] `fortune [13:21:39] God: Q: Why do mountain climbers rope themselves together? A: To prevent the sensible ones from going home. [13:21:48] :D [13:21:52] `fortune [13:21:52] God: As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport. -- Shakespeare, "King Lear" [13:22:07] `fortune [13:22:07] God: Your business will assume vast proportions. [13:32:46] *** Joins: G0d (god@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [13:33:00] again G0d LOL [13:33:58] *** Quits: G0d (god@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Killed (Evil (take this))) [13:34:09] *** Joins: G0d (god@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [13:34:25] *** Quits: G0d (god@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: Evil ) [13:52:23] `fortune [13:52:23] Evil: Do not sleep in a eucalyptus tree tonight. [14:14:38] *** Quits: aue (qWEBirc@RBOSE-vdtbe0.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Page closed) [14:29:58] `fortune [14:29:59] scrdcow: Is that really YOU that is reading this? [14:35:17] `fortune [14:35:18] Evil: It's all in the mind, ya know. [14:40:03] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZxkAn-g4Xo [14:40:06] You4Tube 2[Title] (2010 MOVIE) Toronto G20 EXPOSED - Original Full-Length 2[Category] News 2[Duration] 2:14:11 2[Views] 34990 2[Rating] 4.92 2[Uploaded] 2010-12-10 2[Description] 2Hr 14Mins-This is the Complete Full Documentary Toronto G20 Exposed -The Movie Toronto G20 Exposed DVD -Toronto Star http://www.thestar.com/news/torontog20summit/article/925742--g20-officer-this-ain-t-canada-right-now?bn=1 Toronto G20 Exposed DVD -Toro [15:32:52] ha, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTUxOA [15:33:15] ,title http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTUxOA [15:33:41]  The Skype Protocol Was Reverse-Engineered  [15:33:45] URL Title: [Phoronix] The Skype Protocol Was Reverse-Engineered [15:33:46] lukas_: [Phoronix] The Skype Protocol Was Reverse-Engineered [15:33:49] lol [15:56:49] nice [15:56:57] it you try it lukas_ ? [15:57:02] *did [15:57:11] no [15:57:42] it just appeared in news, i newer was a fan of $kype [15:58:10] ah ok [17:17:14] -nobody- nick change by Viper to Out`Of`Control on FREENODE [17:24:13] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-j7p.l0u.132.41.IP) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) [17:45:05] *** Quits: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: ) [18:18:54] *** Quits: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Connection closed) [18:19:03] *** Joins: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [18:19:14] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o rBOTse [18:33:53] *** Joins: nocaic (nocaic@RBOSE-qdg032.unitymediagroup.de) [19:04:21] *** Quits: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [19:05:39] *** Joins: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [19:06:21] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o rBOTse [19:07:49] *** Quits: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Connection closed) [19:07:51] *** Joins: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [19:07:52] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o rBOTse [19:18:06] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-uqc.vec.29.41.IP) [19:24:58] *** Quits: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [19:31:19] *** Joins: iamme2 (iamme@RBOSE-9et.2mi.28.41.IP) [19:35:28] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-uqc.vec.29.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [19:50:48] *** Joins: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [19:50:59] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o rBOTse [19:51:43] *** Joins: ane (qWEBirc@RBOSE-s9j7l3.adsl.tpnet.pl) [19:52:41] *** Quits: ane (qWEBirc@RBOSE-s9j7l3.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Page closed) [19:59:23] *** Quits: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [20:31:27] *** Joins: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) [20:36:37] *** Quits: iamme2 (iamme@RBOSE-9et.2mi.28.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [20:45:18] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-0t1.c0v.31.41.IP) [20:50:18] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [20:50:25] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [20:53:22] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-0t1.c0v.31.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [21:02:17] *** Joins: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-hni.ku9.30.41.IP) [21:06:52] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) [21:13:06] o/ [21:13:39] *** Quits: iamme (iamme@RBOSE-hni.ku9.30.41.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [21:23:03] *** Joins: lukas_ (lukas@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [21:25:41] quiet today [21:26:15] hi :) [21:26:15] What do you all think about bitcoin? [21:26:29] hey lukas_ [21:26:52] beppu, it's based on scarcity dogma like every other currency [21:27:53] *** Joins: rBOTse (rBOTse@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [21:27:53] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o rBOTse [21:29:47] I have struggled w/ how I should think about money. [21:30:24] I would say exactly the same way you think about religion. [21:30:26] On the one hand, when guys like Buckminster Fuller say things like "money is not wealth", that appeals to me. [21:30:54] lukas_: do you mean that you struggle w/ what to think about religion? [21:31:28] No, i mean that money are like religion, absolutely based on a believe. [21:32:36] The thing that I don't like about money as it exists today is that it's used to control people. (People do a lot of things they otherwise wouldn't do for money.) [21:33:02] And yet, I don't see the idea of money going away any time soon. [21:33:33] Money do not have any real value. Today money are even just like points in computer games, you get some on your bank account but they are not even a document, no way to say when these have been made and by who. [21:34:40] That, I can agree with. It really is just a point system... and whoever controls the creation of those points is pretty much your indirect slavemaster. [21:34:40] It goes like this... (it's a story we are telling few times already to different people) [21:35:51] beppu: that would be IMF, The World Bank and the Federal Reserve, all equal to the Rothschilds [21:36:38] Caly: Yes. I'm not a fan of those organizations. ;) [21:36:57] i refer to them as crime syndicates [21:37:13] From time to time there is a crash or depression. People cry, go hungry, go bankrupt. They stop to believe that money have any value or that there even are any money. But what actually does change physically? Do we have then less resources? [21:37:45] lukas_: They've come to rely too much on money to get their resources. [21:38:12] If money could be bypassed and life-preserving resources could be made abundant, people wouldn't need money so much. [21:38:27] The problem is that nothing changes, beside that believe issue. And we get hungry because we are no longer willing to perform works and give results to other people. [21:39:47] i think i'll go out in the workshop and see if i have gears to make me a rope-making machine [21:40:12] People stop working / helping each other and as result all pay the cost. [21:40:23] yep [21:40:23] have a great time Caly :) [21:40:30] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Connection closed) [21:41:11] lukas: yeah, i have this HUGE spole of what we call bear-tread, a very strong sewing thread... [21:41:27] lukas_: I'd like to live more sustainably, but the transition from city life to country life is a "puzzle" that I don't know how I should solve. [21:41:32] i think if i ripel it it will make for an excellent bow line [21:43:08] beppu, you certainly have heard people who want to live in a free society, please compare that with the amount of people who are actually willing to free something for others [21:43:57] what do you mean by "willing to free something for others"? [21:45:08] by that i mean works, services, intelligent not patented solutions, expertize, art, software, hardware designs, etc. [21:45:29] I see. [21:45:36] it's like "i want to be free but you know.... i cannot help anyone because i need money" - people enslave them selves [21:45:52] That's a good point. [21:46:19] I actually try to do some free work when I can. [21:46:54] All the non-work software I write is free. [21:47:37] We want to build here a platform where we have a social distributed network of people all over willing to help each other and solve complex problems. [21:51:02] If you are one, you never have the option to quit the game and have all the options. You can have papers to do one thing, but you will be not able to do other things, it's made to block you - and i think we need educated or willing to learn people with a lot of permissions, not thinking in terms of short term private only profit but turning their knowledge into commons. [21:52:45] (brb) [21:57:08] beppu, if you have time i can talk a bit about this :) [21:57:49] Sure, I got time. ($work can wait ;) [21:58:21] :) [21:58:44] Have you thought why we have to take something from others in order to give them something, and why we cannot give our work to everyone if this technically possible wherever copper wires are present? Why instead of copying the wealth we take away wealth from others? [21:59:55] with physical goods, reciprocity made some sense. with digital things.... i don't think it makes sense, but people are still stuck in the old ways of thinking. [22:00:44] also, some people don't have big enough hearts to GIVE freely. [22:00:57] It depends in which direction we look. [22:01:11] please explain [22:01:35] Let's start with scarcity. [22:02:00] (i am not a fan of _artificial_ scarcity) [22:02:21] We love scarcity so much that we name our companies Limited, make limited series of products, so called "special editions", ever change fashion, we care to have something what other people would not have, provide so called exclusive services (means excluding people), are able to buy an old oil picture for amount which would be enough to feed whole nation for a while, focus on winners in challenges while effort of thousands of other people in [22:02:23] unnoticed. [22:02:56] interesting . i never thought about it that way. [22:03:08] scarcity has become a virtue! [22:03:10] Our society is driven by unconsciousness cult of scarcity. We could find billions of cases. [22:03:12] but it's not! [22:03:13] ;) [22:03:24] Think about it this way: [22:04:01] what is the common property of items you may think about which are the most expensive? [22:04:33] scarcity? [22:04:40] yeah [22:05:38] So what do you do about the Cult of Scarcity? There are billions of cult members. ;P [22:05:42] You take Ferrari, it's maybe 20% better than standard cars today, but price is much bigger - they keep such prices thanks to keeping the production limited. [22:06:19] Yes. This what i exactly think about. People are not aware about what money are. [22:07:51] We are trained to be workers, no education about what money really are is present in our school system. [22:09:03] Of course not. Schools exist to reinforce the status quo, not destroy it. State education is a form of mind control, IMO. [22:09:30] So kids need to be shown an alternative. [22:09:50] If I knew as a kid what I know now, my life would've taken a much different path. :P [22:10:10] I get same sensation: the more obedient to the system you are the higher position you may get. [22:10:40] It doesn't feel good to work within the system, though. [22:11:19] The scarcity is basis for our economy. Today "good" economy is an economy where profit (for example measured through GDP) increases, but profit can exist only with transactions, and every transactions is an exchange between those who have and those who don't. So since "good" economy is proportional to number of transactions or their total "value", its natural consequence is that we tend to maximize number of them, therefore we try to make the gap between those [22:11:20] who have and those who don't have, the biggest possible. [22:11:54] *** Joins: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) [22:12:07] It is so much against prosperity and well-being, that if you would imagine an idealistic situation where everybody is self sufficient, on individual level or within community, and can solve all the problems, that would be extremely good condition for people, but the economy would be doomed, there would be no single transaction. [22:13:59] lukas_: People have to stop caring about GDP and focus on well-being and health. GDP could be at an all-time low, but if health, happiness, and food production were at record breaking highs... who would care about GDP ;) [22:14:20] Exactly. [22:14:54] transitioning from today's world to a sane world is kinda tricky. there's a bit of a bootstrapping problem. [22:15:24] (especially if you're living in a city and not the country side where you have land to grow your own food.) [22:16:00] if you cut people off from money very suddenly, a lot of people would die. [22:16:08] I guess you need people able to take the risk, feeling that this is what exactly has to be done, and knowing that they cannot wait for others in order to see it done. [22:16:39] lukas_: I have not been brave enough to take that risk, yet, although I've been thinking about it. [22:17:48] I would need to get rid of my furniture and books and other heavy things. [22:18:23] And I would need to find a place to go. [22:19:16] I suppose I could wander between various WWOOF hosts, but eventually, I'd like to have a home. [22:19:40] I get that :) [22:20:43] I'm one of people taking the risk :) Freedom simply tastes good, i'm happy on daily basis like never before in my life. But i do work on backup plans as well - in nature depending on one branch is unnatural, yet i try all to be leading to the same point i want to get. [22:21:41] *** Quits: kman (kman@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [22:21:42] Where do live? [22:22:00] I do live in poland atm. [22:22:30] Are you growing your own food? [22:22:54] Yes, started to do it more seriously this year :) [22:23:13] Nice. [22:23:43] For many of us - people working for a longer time with free software, free hardware, free culture and free spectrum - a certain shift in values occurs. That shift is against the mentioned primary value of the society - the scarcity. [22:24:50] The shift occurs from the value of exchange to value of contribution. [22:25:32] lukas_: I've never been much of a businessman. I like giving things away. [22:26:19] Thinking about objects around you in terms that they are worth only the amount of points another person or group of people are will offer to you, start to render obsolete. [22:28:00] What really an simple candle on table offers to you? Do we understand what great moments it can carry on? Heat, light, can be use for so many things if one has a knowledge. And can be improved in amazing way if that knowledge is freely shared. [22:29:38] The amazing think about so called "free market" is that if people really want to make the concept or objects freely distributed, they are not permitted to so. And let's ask ourselves why? [22:31:22] are you sure about that? even capitalists price things at 0 if it's strategically useful to them. [22:31:45] The bankers and people behind financial policies and strategies, they are not afraid of loosing money fundamentally, they are afraid of the possibility that we all, humans, will start massive creation process. They exist because of control of distribution and they will disappear. [22:32:35] Yeah, but that what you mentioned is a free beer, a trap to catch a fish. [22:32:54] true. [22:33:43] I agree that those in control would lose their control over people if there were ABUNDANCE everywhere. [22:34:21] Where i live now you cannot produce bread and give it to kindergarten without paying taxes from the gift, so you get forced to take advantage of other people's problems and profit from that. [22:34:32] lukas_: wow, that's crazy. [22:35:16] How can they know you gave something away? Couldn't that kind of gift giving be done discretely? [22:35:38] Seriously, how did the tax man find out? [22:35:59] If people will tell about it, you get punished by the legal system. [22:36:05] would* [22:36:29] that's terrible [22:37:27] what a sick system [22:37:50] yeah :( [22:39:05] lukas_: I'm going to take a little break to eat lunch right now. [22:40:03] I don't know a single entity on the market being able to not profit and exist, even not for profit foundations are corporations by law, they exist as long they have money, and they have ofc enforced cost. Otherwise you are not permitted to any economic activity, production. [22:40:12] beppu, enjoy :D [22:40:17] *** Joins: ane (qWEBirc@RBOSE-s9j7l3.adsl.tpnet.pl) [22:48:36] *** Joins: BranManFloMore1 (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) [22:54:19] *** Quits: BranManFloMore (BranManFloMor@RBOSE-i97fcv.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)