[00:02:19] *** Quits: antilect (antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) (Connection closed) [00:02:20] -nobody- antilect has quit FREENODE (Remote host closed the connection) [00:03:31] *** Joins: irc (qwebirc@RBOSE-gkfu2h) [00:03:48] *** Quits: irc (qwebirc@RBOSE-gkfu2h) (Quit: Page closed) [00:24:57] *** Quits: kman (bio@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [00:26:24] 15<12DNS777@FREENODE15> this is old but still i like that > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBE [00:26:25] You4Tube 2[Title] Stallman receiving Torvalds award at LinuxWorld conf 1999 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:02:56 2[Views] 11590 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2008-03-31 2[Description] R. Stallman's speech upon receiving the Linus Torvalds Award for Open Source Computing at Linux World conference 1999 (source: Revolution OS documentary) [00:29:04] sorry this not old [00:29:09] this is GNUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU [00:29:11] lol [00:32:57] !gnu [00:33:20] !gnu free distro [00:33:22] 2,790 results | List of Free GNU/Linux Distributions - GNU Project - Free Software ... @ http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html | Guidelines for Free System Distributions - GNU Project - Free ... @ http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html | GNU/Linux Distros - GNU Operating System @ http://www.gnu.org/distros/ [00:43:37] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezHNdBE5pZc [00:43:38] You4Tube 2[Title] No Emotional Attachment to 9/11 Theories - The Truth is Most Important 2[Category] Film 2[Duration] 0:03:34 2[Views] 19562 2[Rating] 2.21 2[Uploaded] 2011-06-29 2[Description] My anarchism and libertarian mindset has strengthened. So I've spent 5 years listening to the conspiratorial view - then I got the opportunity to grill the historical/accidental view of 9/11 proponents. Where I stand now is that America's d [00:45:34] http://www.connochaetos.org/ [00:48:37] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SavpCQlu2GA [00:48:38] You4Tube 2[Title] Why Charlie Veitch Changed his Mind on 911 - 1/3 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:14:40 2[Views] 4185 2[Rating] 1.74 2[Uploaded] 2011-07-01 2[Description] Max Igan talks with Charlie Veitch Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNmJ3ujFth8 A candid conversation between max igan and charlie veitch regarding his recent change of heart on the 911 conspiracy. For the record, I dont wish to demonize charlie but I [00:49:17] lol Billll what you try to achieve with those vids? [00:49:40] thought it was interesting [00:49:53] ok:) [00:50:54] A popular youtybe individual from the UK was a hardcore 9/11 twoofer who visited america to learn more about 9/11 and ended up changing his mind and no longer buys into 9/11 conspiracy theory's [00:52:05] youtube [00:52:12] Billll: what you have seen in mainstream tv is the main conspiracy version [00:55:53] what do you mean? [00:56:05] all the lies [00:56:09] ;) [00:58:45] you think veitch is mainstream media? [00:59:11] idk what veitch is [00:59:32] but i do knoqw how a controlled demolition looks like [01:01:21] Billll go pray or i will visit you !!! [01:01:50] lol [01:01:56] lol evil [01:02:03] DNS how does a controlled demolish look? [01:02:12] like wtc7 [01:02:25] :p [01:03:48] billll do you get payed to bring that crap here? [01:04:07] !lol [01:04:07] RANDOM: http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/gnu-pc-mac.png [01:05:00] I will make some videos that Santa exist and put them on YT :D [01:05:14] Evil yes I am [01:05:25] I am awaiting my check from the CIA and FBI [01:06:03] billll ok then you did a good job to get your $ :D [01:06:08] haha [01:06:13] LOL [01:06:25] they should give you some bonus [01:06:38] I'll ask [01:07:10] your work is done dont bring it here agian please :D [01:07:17] *again [01:07:32] !dance Billll [01:07:32] what work I was sharing [01:07:33] ACTION starts a wild pogo-dancing in the nicklist and suddenly hits Billll in #RBOSE [01:07:41] lol [01:08:00] billll i dont know ask the one that pay you [01:08:36] I guess I won't bring up a iphone game I made about 9/11 then as well =P It pokes fun at CT's =P [01:09:26] billll i am sorry but talking about a game dont make you "maker" of that game :P [01:10:04] What you mean? [01:10:54] you bring it already [01:11:03] go get some more $ well done LOL [01:11:04] ??? [01:11:19] ???? ???????????? [01:12:03] besides that I was thinking about something for open source [01:12:04] now some evil ???? [01:12:42] let me guess 911 OS game? LOL [01:12:47] Evil, DNS, anybody else do youknow of the basic standards towards open source? [01:12:58] you know* [01:13:05] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GimqB63_n90 [01:13:06] You4Tube 2[Title] G-Clef Da Mad Komposa - Fear In Ya Ear 2[Category] Music 2[Duration] 0:03:49 2[Views] 491 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2010-09-13 2[Description] Sorry for the shitty pic [01:13:31] * Evil was playing a bit with LMMS [01:13:35] * Evil love it [01:13:47] Billll: wh0? [01:14:05] to anybody =P [01:14:09] billll standarts of what? Fileformat? [01:14:24] no what qualifies something as open source [01:14:38] `wiki opensource [01:14:40] Evil: "Open source" (Redirect from "Opensource"): [01:14:41] Evil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source [01:14:42] URL Title: Open source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [01:14:43] Evil: The term open source describes practices in production and development that promote access to the end product's source materials. Some consider open source a philosophy, others consider it a pragmatic methodology. Before the term open source became widely adopted, developers and producers used a variety of phrases to describe the concept; open source gained hold with the rise of the Internet, and the (1 more message) [01:14:48] it's a odd question but I have something that may be minor (major for) me [01:15:20] `more [01:15:21] Evil: attendant need for massive retooling of the computing source code. Opening the source code enabled a self-enhancing diversity of production models, communication paths, and interactive communities. Subsequently, the new phrase "open-source software" was born to describe the environment that the new copyright, licensing, domain, and consumer issues created. [01:15:45] I think their should be a open source standard for all products on or off (free open source) the market [01:16:59] some products on the market have open source standards kind of but not intentionally incorporated in their product. [01:17:04] billll i was wondering why you are back? [01:17:34] to chat with people [01:18:07] Don't worry though i won't be here to long if that's whatyour wondering [01:18:30] you have any goal? [01:18:30] just shooting ideas across to see what you guys and maybe women think [01:18:42] lol [01:18:50] Yes evil to open source everything [01:18:58] i dont like opensource [01:18:59] if you just want to bother ppl it sux Billll [01:19:30] not the right place [01:19:32] go to tzm [01:19:34] lol [01:19:55] :D [01:20:05] DNS no I don't want to bother people [01:20:09] billll then start opensource near you :D [01:20:13] i hope so [01:20:16] :) [01:20:18] :D [01:20:25] plus see old friends [01:20:51] Evil why don't you like opensource? [01:21:07] billll why you dont use opensource? [01:21:17] I do use open source [01:21:26] open source, the term, was started as ppl wanted to make business out of free software [01:21:34] basically [01:21:47] yeah but I like the concept of open source [01:21:58] You call open source something else? [01:22:08] open source is baiscally free software [01:22:13] `fortune [01:22:13] Evil: You will feel hungry again in another hour. [01:22:18] :D [01:22:20] `fortune [01:22:21] Evil: Q: What do you call 15 blondes in a circle? A: A dope ring. Q: Why do blondes put their hair in ponytails? A: To cover up the valve stem. [01:22:25] so you call open source free software? [01:22:31] nah [01:22:46] well i just can speak for me [01:22:52] ok [01:23:01] but in some cases is open source better than free maybe [01:23:06] like with hardware [01:23:20] I think I am for open source and I am for free and open source does that makes sense? [01:23:21] but copyleft hardware sounds much better than open source hardware [01:23:23] :> [01:23:30] http://www.opensource.org/osd.html [01:23:31] URL Title: The Open Source Definition (Annotated) | Open Source Initiative [01:24:14] wait [01:24:15] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html [01:24:16] URL Title: Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) [01:24:33] what's the difference between copy left hardware and open source hardware? [01:24:53] open source hardware not allow you to modify and share the modified betetr design with others? [01:24:53] billll do you care? [01:25:15] you would need to learn what open source is and what copyleft is [01:25:18] ,quote random [01:25:19] DNS777: Quote #57: "Honest pioneer work in the field of science has always been, and will continue to be, life's pilot. On all sides, life is surrounded by hostility. This puts us under an obligation. ~ Wilhelm Reich" (added by Kebap at 09:06 PM, August 04, 2010) [01:25:25] ?? copyleft [01:25:26] copyleft[x]: No defintion found for word. [01:25:28] :o [01:25:40] " but copyleft hardware" [01:25:44] *** missboty was kicked by DNS777 (User terminated!) [01:25:44] *** Joins: missboty (MissBoty@shakes.her.ass.for.RBOSE) [01:25:44] *** RBOSE sets mode: +o missboty [01:25:49] lol [01:25:53] =P [01:26:25] was trying to figure out " but copyleft hardware sounds much better than open source hardware" I think I misunderstood though lol [01:27:29] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qFYV4_B7r8&html5=True [01:27:30] You4Tube 2[Title] Farage: Brussels bunglers lurching from one bailout to the next; Barroso says 'No Plan B' 2[Category] Nonprofit 2[Duration] 0:04:36 2[Views] 14680 2[Rating] 4.99 2[Uploaded] 2011-06-28 2[Description] http://www.ukipmeps.org • European Parliament, Brussels - 28 June 2011 • Speakers: Nigel Farage MEP, UKIP, Co-President of the EFD Group in the European Parliament (Europe of Freedom and Democracy) - Excerpt fro [01:27:46] http://rbose.org/wiki/Copyleft [01:27:47] URL Title: Copyleft - RBOSE [01:30:22] EUSSR LOL [01:30:37] 0_o [01:31:16] euro parlament is 100% same like sovjet communist party [01:31:33] its same crap only other name [01:36:18] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpxPo-lInk&html5=True [01:36:19] You4Tube 2[Title] DEBTOCRACY (FULL - ENG Subs) 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 1:14:48 2[Views] 88009 2[Rating] 4.81 2[Uploaded] 2011-05-13 2[Description] For the first time in Greece a documentary produced by the audience. "Debtocracy" seeks the causes of the debt crisis and proposes solutions, hidden by the government and the dominant media. Editor/Script Katerina Kitidi Aris Chatzistefanou Scientific Research Leonidas Vatikio [02:02:24] *** DNS777 is now known as [777] [02:15:11] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [02:18:47] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [02:45:56] *** Quits: Billll (qwebirc@RBOSE-i1n87k.res.rr.com) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:45:56] *** Quits: SoNeta (piespy@rbose.IRC.people) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:45:56] *** Quits: scrdcow (scrdcow@RBOSE-11g.ogf.180.213.IP) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:45:56] *** Quits: nobody (UFO@Unidentified.Flying.Object) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:45:56] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-k7pktn.adsl.hansenet.de) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:45:56] *** Quits: devbot (supybot@RBOSE-fnj.k3a.168.192.IP) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:45:56] *** Quits: Evil (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [02:48:01] *** Joins: nobody (UFO@Unidentified.Flying.Object) [02:48:01] *** Joins: SoNeta (piespy@rbose.IRC.people) [02:48:01] *** Joins: Evil (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) [02:48:01] *** Joins: devbot (supybot@RBOSE-fnj.k3a.168.192.IP) [02:48:01] *** Joins: scrdcow (scrdcow@RBOSE-11g.ogf.180.213.IP) [02:48:01] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-k7pktn.adsl.hansenet.de) [02:48:01] *** Joins: Billll (qwebirc@RBOSE-i1n87k.res.rr.com) [02:49:59] -nobody- Viper has quit FREENODE (Remote host closed the connection) [02:54:41] -nobody- disconnected from Arg: Ping sent at 2011-07-02T02:52:38 not replied to. 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[03:24:06] *** Quits: SoNeta (piespy@rbose.IRC.people) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [03:24:06] *** Quits: scrdcow (scrdcow@RBOSE-11g.ogf.180.213.IP) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [03:24:06] *** Quits: nobody (UFO@Unidentified.Flying.Object) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [03:24:06] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-k7pktn.adsl.hansenet.de) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [03:24:06] *** Quits: devbot (supybot@RBOSE-fnj.k3a.168.192.IP) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [03:24:06] *** Quits: Evil (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) (pms.rbose.org viper.rbose.org) [03:26:04] *** Joins: nobody (UFO@Unidentified.Flying.Object) [03:26:04] *** Joins: SoNeta (piespy@rbose.IRC.people) [03:26:04] *** Joins: Evil (Viper@NetAdmin.RBOSE) [03:26:04] *** Joins: devbot (supybot@RBOSE-fnj.k3a.168.192.IP) [03:26:04] *** Joins: scrdcow (scrdcow@RBOSE-11g.ogf.180.213.IP) [03:26:04] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-k7pktn.adsl.hansenet.de) [04:24:10] *** Joins: Slush-_ (Slush-@RBOSE-uu2jnl.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [07:39:53] http://p2pfoundation.net/User_Ownership This might interest you guys, its basically a theory for ownership and production applying the ideas in the GPL to the physical world [07:39:54] URL Title: User Ownership - P2P Foundation [08:23:19] 1 [09:25:17] morning everyone :) [09:29:55] o/ [09:32:46] hi maat :) did you sleep well? [09:33:34] very well thank you, and yourself? [09:33:59] me too, thx [09:34:43] i am unsure about OSEE plans... I need to talk more with the guys [09:34:54] sure [09:35:01] but they don't stop talking about funding funding funding [09:35:09] ok we need some of course but... [09:35:28] yeah, exactly [09:37:41] *** Joins: kman (bio@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) [09:38:14] o/ [09:38:40] \o [09:38:53] hi kman :) [09:39:41] maat, it's like we have been here contributing our own resources, i did work really well so far, it doesn't centralize ownership, people all totally free to decide on their own if they want to dedicate resources (servers, lab equipment), contribute effort and time [09:41:51] we had such idea that basically if people want to accomplish any thing, they themselves pull the resources in, everybody works together to make best design possible because this is what they will use themselves, and the designs are published with all possible documentation [09:42:40] i think what people think at ose is a bit different [09:42:46] i'm looking forward for their vision :) [09:42:54] and i actually have to write mine :o [09:43:14] i'm meeting with 3 others guys from the project this afternoon [09:43:20] is there any timeline for that? [09:44:04] no official, but i think we expect most of them by the end of next week [09:45:18] we have been tracking development of few projects, which started to become successful and know more or less, for example the reprap thing [09:45:31] ok [09:46:56] and it has been really a disappointing fact that it turned into business communities, were you have a problem to get documentation, look for help, and so on, because they prioritize the sell [09:47:26] hm [09:47:43] i think it is good to separate design and its goal [09:47:51] as long as everything is/stays open [09:48:08] in case of the reprap it seems the motto disappeared, in it's place a reward for design appeared, and it's really hard to find documentation which was there [09:48:16] it is ok if people want to make business out of open source products [09:48:27] i see [09:49:06] yeah, but it happens at cost of shady enclosure and inconvenience in the system [09:49:15] The problem with that is if the material you release (say blueprints for a circuit) require very advanced raw materials, people might still be forced to invest in your solution. [09:49:21] Like with the reprap. [09:49:33] You either make the joints from wood, or you have to get them from a maker. [09:50:33] There are many reprap makers that sell crap parts on ebay just for the sell for example. But what can you expect ? ^^ [09:50:47] i see your point [09:51:02] but it is probably impossible to have a "perfect" community [09:51:39] many companies, for example like jamendo, make it incontinent to people to access "their" (in fact whole community is involved) products with their interfaces, in order to bust profits, so it's literally so inconvenient that people decide to pay [09:52:19] but the functionality is there, defective by design [09:52:27] hm [09:53:00] not sure what to think about that [09:53:13] i am inbetween 2 positions [09:53:24] 1) totally idealistic [09:53:29] 2) maybe a bit more realistic :) [09:53:48] i would favor 1) because of my ethics [09:53:49] but [09:54:14] it appears that 2) can achieve much more and even though it leads to non-perfect solutions [09:54:21] it still goes in the right direction [09:54:34] and i am nt sure if 1) provides perfect solutions anyway :) [09:55:14] maat, i was simply pointing some out the cons of FOSS vs business. Im not in any way looking for something "perfect". I thrive on conflict. But i want to belong to a community that takes the cons in to question, as well as the pros. [09:55:53] maat, we both are physicists probably, i would say we are realistic by profession, often more than others [09:56:56] i am a theoretical physicist, so i may be more realistic than mathematicians, but still, I'm far from being realistic~ [09:57:14] haha [09:57:30] "More realistic than mathematicians"? Haha [09:57:32] ^^ [09:57:54] they have a planet of their own :) [09:59:25] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Nl2Xnmd5g here is a guy, founder of the Electronics Frontier Foundation, he does not hide he is from other planet among these greedy people [09:59:26] You4Tube 2[Title] eG8 - interventions of John Perry Barlow and Jérémie Zimmermann - Tuesday, May 24th 2011 2[Category] Nonprofit 2[Duration] 0:36:26 2[Views] 3438 2[Rating] 5.00 2[Uploaded] 2011-05-25 2[Description] "You cannot own free speech" - John Perry Barlow, Electronic Frontier Foundation "On n'est pas des voleurs" - Jérémie Zimmermann, La Quadrature du Net eG8 - Plenary IV - Intellectual Property and the Culture Economy [10:00:18] :) [10:00:29] something great and sad to listen to :| [10:01:03] this is the official panel there ^ [10:02:00] lukas, it was alright. I dont really know what the first speaker is referring to most of the time. Kind of confused me. Felt like total politics. [10:03:28] kman, that was a conference of govs and corps with exclusion of society, and the subject was how to get more control through money over the last [10:04:03] mainly propaganda by our dear president [10:04:14] Yeah, but i still dont really know what "open and fair internet" means. [10:04:30] I mean, they are pretty words and all that, but.... [10:05:25] Brb. [10:07:08] maat, please take a look at this: http://dev.rbose.org/beta/gobby/preview/Why_not_money#MONEY_.2F_ECONOMY [10:07:10] URL Title: Gobby Preview - RBOSE [10:14:52] well there are good points of course [10:15:40] we have to go back to my 1) and 2) from earlier and think what is the best/fastest way to go there [10:15:54] i mean ok you could buy land and leave by yourself [10:16:12] but 99% of the population will still be stuck in the system [10:16:30] maybe you can pull them off [10:16:38] what i try to see is how to enlarge the base of believers [10:17:06] yes both views exist, and i'm not sure if one is better than the other [10:17:14] they are just different [10:18:39] *** Joins: Cyclo (Cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) [10:21:43] i know i want to do it personally on the no-profit way, i guess i learned some egalitarian values during the time, and as Eben Moglen put it, photons travel at the same speed for every individual, i see no reason to discriminate other people, take advantage on them nor centralize any economic aspect [10:22:53] but we will see what will work [10:24:43] money are just points, another type of dogma, today they are even not documents, they exist as virtual points on virtual banks, with no information when and by who were released, our society is a society of gamers who don't even know that they have been played all the time [10:25:04] agreed [10:29:38] http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Transparency >> last updated 15 april 2009 [10:29:39] URL Title: Transparency - Open Source Ecology [10:29:49] (i'm looking for budget tables & cie on the wiki) [10:34:36] let me know when you find it, there is a broadly accepted practice of counting just everything what possible into the costs, like vacations, food, clothes, cars -- don't get me wrong, people need that, but it's just not unequivocal, because things like that are counted as their cost of work as well [10:38:19] http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/November_2008_Funding [10:38:20] =) [10:38:20] URL Title: November 2008 Funding - Open Source Ecology [10:40:19] http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2008/11/october-progress-report-major-success-in-crowd-funding/ [10:40:20] URL Title: October Progress Report: Major Success in Crowd Funding | Factor E Farm Blog [10:40:38] well there WAS reports & cie [10:40:50] just need to find the new ones :p [10:41:16] ok, so far i see only combined values without details [10:48:09] maat, you mentioned that scrap metal recycling was used. Is only recast junk metal used for the production? [10:48:17] No external sourcing? [10:48:38] i haven't looked at the details [10:49:45] I would be impressed if that was the case. Also id like to know how they assure the quality of the forged steel. [10:50:41] go read the wiki there probably are some details [10:55:07] Hmm.. No systems in place it seems. [10:55:17] Just a request for more research in the subject. [10:55:28] Judging by the material on the wiki. [10:55:34] -nobody- antilect has joined on FREENODE [10:57:05] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDy1jx6mLgs&feature=player_embedded [10:57:06] You4Tube 2[Title] Making Steel from Dirt 2[Category] Education 2[Duration] 0:09:05 2[Views] 160310 2[Rating] 4.84 2[Uploaded] 2007-11-13 2[Description] Mike Blue, Randall Graham, Ric Furrer, making steel at Larry Harley's in May 2006. Lecture and Demonstration. Filmed by Christopher Price of The Tidewater Forge. 9 minutes. [10:58:29] *** Joins: antilect (antilect@RBOSE-uvec0q.tbcn.telia.com) [10:59:06] Wow. This is really interesting. [11:05:12] "We are in the business of distributive economics creation: our metric of success is how many people we can help to generate economically significant activities" [11:05:15] @marcin [11:05:20] http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2011/04/explosion-after-the-online-ted-talk/ [11:05:21] URL Title: Explosion: After the Online TED Talk | Factor E Farm Blog [11:05:34] interesting blog post about maarcin's vision for OSE [11:07:12] As far as technological development goes, my main insterest is in raw material extraction. Polylactic acid from starch plants, iron, wood etc. [11:07:16] All very interesting subjects. [11:13:17] http://vimeo.com/21687154 [11:13:18] URL Title: nanoHabitat - Step by Step Tutorial on Vimeo [11:14:02] sadly not in english [11:15:55] -nobody- disconnected from Arg: Ping sent at 2011-07-02T11:13:54 not replied to. [11:16:47] maat, i know some of the guys behind nanoHabitat personally [11:17:48] i was on a workshop about two months ago were we have been building a house from straw and clay [11:19:12] interesting was that we didn't had there any costs, people had to pay for their own food and transportation to the place, we slept in tents, there was no electricity or other media used by the volunteers [11:19:32] sounds good :) [11:19:58] but on other workshops here people have to pay about 150 euro for about 5 days, and situation is exactly the same like above [11:20:14] it creates artificial scarcity [11:20:18] *** Joins: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-bn3c1p.mweb.co.za) [11:20:32] :\ [11:20:51] okcon for example was 60€ for 2 days, 20€ for students [11:21:03] and you could request to be admitted for free by filling out a form [11:21:55] i read OSE blog/wiki a bit more this morning [11:22:00] i think i get the point some more [11:22:26] i wil not explain it because i will probably distort it anyway [11:22:46] but it changes my view, i will have to think more about it :p [11:24:36] then next edition of the workshop we have been taking apart was happening, this time participants had to pay and the guy said there have been costs previously, but there was none, we voluntarily have been driving by car with people to other cities when they needed transports, people were helping each other, build toilets, performed other works on a place he will now be living, so we helped him build a place and were learning at the same time - seemed that this [11:24:38] was not enough for the organizers, so they not only want you to build a place for them but as well they want be payed for letting you do it :| [11:25:25] Its all marketing ^^ [11:25:42] Voluntary efforts to create a value base as an incentive for people to invest. [11:25:56] yes :( [11:26:18] :( [11:27:45] I really see a negative potential in the fact that the OSE projects are driven by external raw material sources. How much increase in the steel prices will they be able to handle before the entire project becomes unsustainable economically? [11:28:51] And if we're really talking about solutions for everyone (a global village construction set), how come they didnt start with the metal sourcing part of that? [11:29:02] Kind of puzzles me. [11:30:29] kman, maybe they thought about current costs of steel and prioritized, some costs can be low for a given time therefore it may make sense to focus on other projects [11:30:59] Yeah sure, but that very short-sighted. [11:31:41] i think i would do that, but i would already think about the branch of a tree i'm sitting on which can fall down, looking at other options [11:34:07] my experience is that there is a lot of people who want to get involved, they have time, brains, experience and hearts, but there is no honest facilitator communication platform for them, and let's get precise here: today economy does not reward this type behavior, instead if you gonna burn rain forest but can generate profit, it will be economically very sane idea [11:39:19] business in it's very definition is just a sum of operations on only monetary costs and profits, the rest is just a folklore [11:46:42] however, like the bumble-bee, who only is interested in honey and nothing else but in doing so helps the flowers to get children, straight-for-money business sometimes also produces worthwile results [11:52:00] ^^ [11:55:13] lukas, the problem with lacking communication platforms is really reminding itself regardless of what technological development you look in to. Try searching for material on scrap steel recycling for half an hour and you'll see what i mean ^^ [11:55:36] Which makes me wonder where i should put to focus of my efforts this summer. [11:56:08] Are you still interested in the recipe DB? [11:56:21] sure :) [11:57:11] Sorry for making any claims of involvement i havent backed up btw. My degree project has taken all my time. [11:57:32] How about a brainstorm session this evening? [11:58:55] I know viper was interested as well. [12:00:30] I'm for sure for it, just not sure about this evening. [12:03:07] Any other day that might work better? [12:05:08] *** Joins: ludens (ludens@RBOSE-f7mvlv.apua.se) [12:05:37] about OSE prioritisation, i think one of the main goal was to prove the concept [12:05:43] like "hey look, we built a tractor" [12:06:01] and it worked because they then got the ted talks and they got enormous public outreach [12:06:19] maat, yeah. Getting that kind of attention is very important for any starting project like that and shouldnt be underestimated. [12:06:46] Something that couldnt have been generated if they started out talking about raw material extraction and steel recycling ^^ [12:07:01] haha [12:07:26] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [12:07:32] kman, i send you info about my accessibility in query [12:07:32] maybe that's a longer/harder project [12:07:40] *** Quits: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: Ex-Chat) [12:09:25] maat, my point being, not as fancy to show off as building an OS tractor ^^ [12:09:32] kman, regarding that metal works, we have been talking with Viper a lot about it, he has plenty nice ideas [12:09:37] ,poke Evil [12:09:38] * rBOTse pokes Evil with a stream of useless data [12:10:08] Really? [12:10:17] Id love to hear them! [12:14:58] basically Viper's ideas were so "crazy" that i laugh at first, but he keeps to showing to me over and over how to escape different costs, lol, it's just non-standard thinking :D we have a lot of fun with it [12:16:41] for example one of questions was something like "I can get 1000 crt screens for free, what can we build out of it?" [12:17:19] As for electric components, making an automated recycler is not too much of a problem. [12:17:39] A heatsource, a shaker of some sort, a vakuum source to suck up the parts and your done ^^ [12:19:00] for most of the parts it would work probably :) [12:24:01] there are several problems we have to deal with: one issue are the development spaces, other is the distance between developers and transportation cost of people and materials, then energy and resources to build something, and food - i don't know if anybody disagrees with this, but from my perspective as long people don't achieve self-sufficiency when it comes to food, water, energy and housing, on local community or individual basis, there will be a problem [12:24:03] that they need to keep taking away things from others in order to survive [12:26:08] morning [12:26:18] wud up comotion [12:27:13] ludens, i share that perspective. The problem is, its harder to popularize solutions for fundamental problems like that than, for example, compared to building a 3D-printer. [12:27:40] Thats one of the end-results of relying on economic gain, you also have to rely on public attention. [12:28:03] maat kman lukas I've been tracking your conversation about OSE [12:28:23] hi comotion :) [12:28:38] Therefore, i think we also have a lot to contribute with there. OSbike for example - popularizing transportation. [12:28:43] or actually, you guys have been discussing self-sufficiency again and how it relates to OSE [12:29:07] comotion, i would say so, yes. [12:29:20] comotion, maybe you would like to check the yesterday talk as well, there was a very interesting beginning to this talk [12:29:21] self-sufficiency is a very important topic I feel [12:29:47] lukas: sure. I have 10 minutes before I have to bust a move for a lockpicking class [12:30:36] kman I have some specific ideas as pertaining to how to achieve self-sufficiency [12:30:57] I believe that given a big enough community to help each other, money would not matter [12:31:14] but you would still have to interface with the gov't and other places [12:31:43] comotion, http://rbose.org/irc/logs/RBOSE/%23RBOSE.log.2011-07-01 started 20:23 [12:32:21] but please continue :) [12:32:24] so I think there is a need to properly organize such an effort [12:32:46] to work together to become self-sufficient for mutual benefit [12:32:50] comotion, lockpicking you say? ^^ used to be very involved in that. I have a WW2 german bank lock (somewhat similar to the design of the Dome panzur locks) on my desk. [12:32:59] to prove to people that money doesn't matter [12:33:31] btw https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/International_waters ;) [12:33:33] URL Title: International waters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [12:33:35] kman: yeah hackeriet (oslo hackerspace) is arranging it :-) [12:33:40] Cool. [12:33:51] nice! [12:34:08] kman, lukas, maat: http://comotion.delta9.pl/ <- more specifically, the "syndicate" link [12:34:09] URL Title: Index of / [12:34:16] Good luck. Any famous pick makers showing up? Do you know if Raimundo is stilla active? [12:35:06] no idea. atluxity - one of our members - is as famous as I know 'em :d [12:36:06] I'll be back. Read my article and see if it fits :) [12:37:43] thx [12:37:51] kman, regarding self-sufficiency and some fancy stuff to show, GCVS is very nice, but since a development space is an issue for many people living in cities (mainly in terms of costs), and the transportation options are as well very limited (or , i think we may need something Personal to help people, like GPFS - Global and Personal Freedom Set xD [12:41:41] ^^ [12:41:46] Not to bad of an idea. [12:42:57] hi comotion [12:46:10] oh, quoting taleb's black swan i see, cool :) [12:46:16] i loved the ideas in that book [13:37:46] *** Joins: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [13:49:13] !morning all [13:49:13] ACTION wishes everybody in #RBOSE a wonderful morning and a great start in the day! [13:51:11] DNS, o/ [13:51:30] hey kman [13:51:49] (: [13:53:21] *** Parts: dirt (dirt@RBOSE-cn22bv.pool.telekom.hu) [14:00:11] hi DNS :) [14:00:34] hi lukas :) [14:19:45] hey hey [14:20:24] so we have a OSEE meeting at 3, I will propose rbose as an option for a communication platform [14:22:24] we will not take a decision today anyway but i want to make it clear that i dont want to reinvent the wheel when good platforms exist [14:22:53] sure maat :) [14:30:14] Great! Please tell us how it went. [14:30:18] I'll be here all day. [14:34:16] nice y0 [14:35:56] maat, would it be possible to observe the meeting? Just listen, i mean. [14:37:40] kman want to spy [14:37:57] kman007 [14:37:59] :> [14:38:16] Hey man dont tell them! [14:38:21] lol [14:38:32] ,poke DNS [14:38:34] * rBOTse pokes DNS with a controversy [14:38:58] this channel is logged DNS, people will find, lol [14:39:35] but the hosts are mangled lol [14:40:07] kman, you can always hack their mobile phones to tune in, there is little protection on these [14:40:41] Please take future tips like that in pm ok? [14:40:47] lol [14:40:48] ^^ [14:41:01] sure, sorry [14:47:58] https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/sound < LMMS updates :) [14:48:02] URL Title: Sound : DNS [14:52:31] DNS, you tried the new version with changed buttons, ogg and mp3 support, and some security for xss http://dev.rbose.org/files/jamload.xpi ? [14:53:07] its an update? [14:53:22] maybe put that at launchpad also in bazaar? [14:53:29] yeah, but i did not change version number :P [14:53:51] will do :) [14:53:59] :) [14:55:08] hm and plz make it compatible with ff 3.6 [14:55:09] :D [14:55:21] in my default browser (in trisquel) its not workin [14:55:34] but with icecat 5 [14:56:55] hmm, i used new sdk to make it, not sure how much work that would be, but it should work with >= 4.* [15:03:01] yea the buttons are nice integrated lukas [15:03:28] yw :) [15:09:03] *** [777] is now known as DNS777 [15:30:19] i'm off for a while, need to do some hardware work, have a great time everyone [15:31:31] hf :) [15:58:31] Seem like i wasnt welcome at the meeting after all T_T [16:00:55] !poke maat [16:00:56] ACTION pokes maat in #RBOSE a bit with some great ideas to make a better world [16:01:00] :D [16:01:33] btw any uses lmms? [16:01:50] the last git revision has very new demo songs there [16:02:04] you can dl it from my ppa if you use *buntu [16:11:59] lmms? [16:15:26] ?? lmms [16:15:26] lmms[1]: Linux Multi Media Studio (LMMS) is a free cross-platform alternative to commercial programs like FL Studio®, which allow you to produce music with your computer. This includes the creation of melodies and beats, the synthesis and mixing of sounds, and arranging of samples. You can have fun with your MIDI-keyboard and much more; all in a user-friendly and modern interface. http://lmms.sourceforge.net [16:15:28] lmms[2]: The latest LMMS v0.4.11 (for Ubuntu 10.04-11.10) you can download at https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/sound [16:20:21] http://lmms.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php [16:20:22] URL Title: Screenshots of LMMS [16:21:59] !poke kman [16:22:00] ACTION pokes kman in #RBOSE a bit with some love [16:22:09] heh [16:22:27] Cool ^^ [16:22:36] Busy with puredata atm though. [16:29:07] *** Joins: Hakufu (jsajfsagj@RBOSE-g8f.fu3.58.109.IP) [16:35:06] puredata [16:35:08] what was that? [16:35:11] music generation? [16:35:14] or sounds [16:40:41] *** Quits: Hakufu (jsajfsagj@RBOSE-g8f.fu3.58.109.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [16:43:19] !w puredata [16:43:21] Pure Data | Pure Data (or Pd) is a visual programming language developed by Miller Puckette in the 1990s for the creation of interactive computer music and multimedia works. Though Puckette is the primary author of the software, Pd is an open source project and has a large developer base working on new extensions to the program. It is released under a license similar to the BSD license. It runs on [16:43:22] GNU/Linux, Mac OS X, iPhoneOS, Android and Windows. There are older ports for FreeBSD and IRIX. Pd is very similar in scope and design to Puckette's original Max program (developed while he was at IRCAM), and is to some degree interoperable with Max/MSP, the commercial successor to the Max language. They may be collectively di @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puredata [17:04:47] FAT64, its used by many monome applications. kind of love it actually. [17:04:51] !w monome [17:04:53] Monome | Monome is a family of interface devices for computers made by a Pennsylvania company of the same name. Despite being produced irregularly in small quantities since its introduction in 2006, the Monome button-grid controller has had a significant impact on electronic music. Together with the physically similar Yamaha Tenori-On, which was released a year later in 2007, the monome inspired [17:04:54] interest in minimalist, grid-based music controllers throughout the industry. That interest spawned hobbyist projects like the Arduinome and commercial products like the Akai APC40, the Novation Launchpad, and the Livid Instruments Block and Ohm64. Monome devices do not produce any sound on their own; they must be connected to @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monome [17:09:37] *** Quits: Sixth_Ape (sixth_ape@RBOSE-bn3c1p.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) [17:18:02] monome [17:31:34] -nobody- Kebap23 has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [17:31:55] hi folks :D [17:32:35] *** Evil is now known as Viper [17:33:01] !hello viper [17:33:02] ACTION greets viper (because DNS wants me to), and offers some help. (Type: !help) [17:33:34] :) [17:36:20] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-k7pktn.adsl.hansenet.de) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [17:36:21] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-qqdv8q.adsl.alicedsl.de) [17:36:23] -nobody- Kebap23 has joined on FREENODE [17:41:03] -nobody- disconnected from FREENODE: Ping sent at 2011-07-02T17:38:59 not replied to. [17:41:32] -nobody- nobody has joined on FREENODE [17:41:33] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +o nobody [19:08:41] *** Quits: kman (bio@RBOSE-hhm.9h0.94.93.IP) (Connection closed) [19:12:45] http://piratskapartija.com/blog/2011/07/02/live-julian-assange-i-slavoj-zizek-u-razgovoru-sa-amy-goodman-iz-democracynow-org/ [19:12:46] Viper's URL: http://x0.no/22x5 [19:12:48] URL Title: LIVE! Julian Assange i Slavoj Žižek u razgovoru sa Amy Goodman iz democracynow.org | Piratska Partija [21:18:02] hi guys :D [21:18:37] Hey lukas :) [21:21:08] how are you today Viper? :D [21:23:39] fine thanks :D [21:29:43] lukas how are you? [21:30:15] I'm fine too :) [21:33:19] https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/sound < lmms 0.4.12 is out :) [21:33:20] URL Title: Sound : DNS [21:41:22] http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp/ [21:41:23] URL Title: LMMS Sharing Platform [22:13:10] cool stuff DNS :) [22:15:01] Are any of you guys programmers? [22:15:09] If so, what languages? [22:15:21] I'm going to start programming before school starts to learn it. [22:15:37] *teach it. [22:15:49] antilect, http://rbose.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Python [22:15:50] URL Title: Python - RBOSE [22:15:54] :D [22:16:30] Python is OSS, wich is great. [22:16:42] Also seems understandable and high-level. [22:16:49] What about Haskell? [22:17:06] Do people even use C#, C++ now adays? [22:19:29] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages [22:19:31] URL Title: Comparison of programming languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [22:21:07] antilect google works on python lol [22:21:22] -nobody- nick change by Viper to Out`Of`Control on FREENODE [22:21:25] They made their entire system with python? :) [22:21:29] antilect: a language is just a language. [22:21:53] If they did, then python must be very powerful. [22:21:55] antilect: many people use C# and C++. but C# is not that common for free software projects. [22:22:01] I will need Java for school. Do or be damned :/ [22:22:15] there is a nice visualized comparison of usage of programming languages through out the history somewhere at go0gle [22:22:52] ...a dynamic one [22:23:03] antilect: the language doesn't really matter when it comes to learning to program. it's about the thinking, what paradigm, design etc. [22:24:26] it matters if it allows you to do what you want to do, and matters what it doesn't allow you to do [22:24:26] antilect: atleast the main thing. but ofcourse some languages can be easier to start with than others. [22:24:43] lukas: well ofcourse, but still. [22:25:26] lukas: the main part is learning to program as such imo. [22:26:17] You write code, you compile, you run it on a virtual machine [22:26:19] for example i would not recommend php to anybody today, i used it but... you can only develop with it some web apps and shell scripts... a waste of time and very annoying syntax imho [22:26:21] That seems like java [22:26:35] lukas, php has evolved into something new right? [22:27:09] i don't know anything about that [22:27:35] lukas: yeah, I agree. but if you want to learn OOP, learn OOP-thinking with a language that seems good. then you can more easily switch if you need to and learn other. [22:28:01] antilect, you don't compile python, it does it on its own in the run time [22:28:37] antilect: java can be both compiled and not compiled. [22:28:47] hey lukas we have such as in our wiki too [22:28:50] D: [22:28:59] such as? :-) [22:28:59] DNS? :) [22:29:18] DNS, do you mean php? [22:29:56] Wow, what a jungle. [22:30:00] I feel a bit scared at the scale of it all. [22:30:01] 15<12DNS777@FREENODE15> http://rbose.org/wiki/Foss_programming_languages [22:30:03] URL Title: Foss programming languages - RBOSE [22:30:03] .seen evil [22:30:11] 15<12DNS777@FREENODE15> sorry [22:30:13] 15<12DNS777@FREENODE15> this i mean [22:30:15] 15<12DNS777@FREENODE15> oops [22:30:19] it's a jungle sometimes, keeps me wonder how I keep from going under ;-) [22:30:23] 15<12DNS777@FREENODE15> im switchin with nicks and networks [22:30:25] ,any nairboon [22:30:25] Viper: nairboon was last seen in #RBOSE 24 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 38 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: *** nairboon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:30:32] hah [22:30:32] 15* 12DNS777@FREENODE hopes hes not confusing [22:30:40] !seen nairboon [22:30:41] DNS, nairboon (nairboon@RBOSE-cdb9l1.cust.bluewin.ch) was last seen quitting #RBOSE.DE 9 weeks 3 days 7 hours 35 minutes ago (27.04. 12:55) stating "Ping timeout: 241 seconds" after spending 9 minutes there. [22:31:00] antilect: just pick python and a good book and just start. I would say. [22:31:39] antilect: always hard to comprehend everything before getting into it imo. [22:31:55] Mm. [22:32:09] antilect, i have plenty apps here which i simply change almost on the fly, including the os itself, irc, editors, cad software, web apps, software for my kid, and all with one language: python -- but as scrdcow said, you need to get an idea how to program [22:32:30] i'm not a coder, procrastinate it all the time, but that's my approach not to make it such a big thing so that I won't start. [22:32:34] python as well is considered to be simple, yet powerful and fast as C [22:32:34] When you program, if my intuition is somewhat correct, you have a LOT of predefined "libraries" with lists of functions and stuff that you have access to right? [22:32:54] So no matter what language you use, you have access to libraries with lists of commands that does certain things in your computer. [22:33:00] You just need to KNOW how to find those commands. [22:33:08] only being coding some c, c++ before and java. but dropped out of school ;-) [22:33:36] antilect, yes, for python the index is here: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pip [22:33:36] scrdcow when/why you need a school for coding? lol [22:33:36] URL Title: pip 1.0.1 : Python Package Index [22:34:06] Viper: I don't but that was before. it was an occupation that got me money to live meanwhile ;-) [22:34:32] antilect: yes. you usually have references for stuff. [22:34:50] $easy_insall package_name -- and you have it on your system, but don't do that before you read more about the uninstall and virtual environments [22:35:11] antilect: you know a library that does what you want, and you look up references, it's functions and what arguments they take and what they give back. [22:36:57] Aha! [22:37:02] Sounds pretty neat! :) [22:37:12] But that's when the proprietary shit kicks in right? [22:37:15] antilect: i'm plannig (know it's more about having time) to learn python. because it's seems easy to learn, is very consistent, can be used for both web-stuff and apps. [22:37:23] antilect: no why? [22:37:23] There is a library to make people fly, but it costs 14$ :D [22:37:53] antilect: hehe could be. but many times it's the opposite. you have great free software librarys that proprietary software use because it's the best libs around. [22:38:01] Mm :) [22:38:07] Mm :) [22:38:10] When you say web-stuff. [22:38:18] antilect, not with python, it's Free language, and it's creator revived an award from the FSF for his work [22:38:20] What does that usually incorporate. [22:38:25] its* [22:38:31] antilect: that's also why GNU have the GNU LGPL, lesser general public license that allows linking to it even thou the app your writing isn't free software. [22:38:32] lukas, nice. [22:38:44] I see :) [22:39:30] Do you guys use Emacs? [22:39:40] GNU Emacs 23 [22:39:41] antilect: homepages, backend stuff perhaps. there is alot of frameworks for that also. [22:40:17] antilect: frameworks for building webpages that is python based. [22:40:18] *** DNS777 is now known as [777] [22:40:51] antilect: no, not nowadays. I only edit config files and small files, I don't code and don't need a big editor. [22:40:57] antilect, Java instead is kept in hands of Oracle bastards who fukk up everything they touch (mysql databases, open office (spited to Libre Office to screw oracle) , and one of now almost dead gnu/linux distros) https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Java_%28programming_language%29 [22:40:59] URL Title: Java (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [22:41:03] with lots of features. [22:42:16] but still a language is just a language. although there is someone in control of the development of the language and the official implementation there can be other implementations that work fine. [22:42:33] but I agree with lukas. [22:44:09] antilect: but usually when you do more complex webpages there is alot of different languages etc to learn. I feel it would be easier to just code some simple scripts/apps with just one language to learn to program. [22:45:44] Mm. [22:45:54] And of COURSE, university teaches Java [22:45:55] Brilliant. [22:46:09] antilect: i have alot of ideas but usually they space out in to huge ideas with lots of features. for me it would be better to just stick with a book and code examples and perhaps figure out smaller ideas and don't evolve them to much. [22:46:14] lukas, makes me pissed about Oracle fucking shit up :( [22:46:24] *** [777] is now known as DNS777 [22:46:45] scrdcow, KISS :) [22:46:49] antilect: even thou you will learn a great deal with java that can be used in other languages. for example object oriented programming, and design. [22:46:59] Mm. [22:47:02] antilect: yes, trying to tell my brain that ;-) [22:47:15] but it's hard, i'm more of a thinker than doer. [22:47:18] I wonder somehow why there arn't any more "visual programming languages" like Delphi used to be to Pascal :) [22:47:45] C#, Java, QT [22:48:20] http://qt.nokia.com/products/ [22:48:21] URL Title: Qt Qt - A cross-platform application and UI framework [22:48:25] Is it a Nokia product? [22:48:37] antilect: it's better imo not to be to hung up on politics and just learn to code. if school teaches java fine, learn it and then code python at home. [22:49:00] or something like that. [22:49:01] antilect: they buyed that some time ago, but its on GPL [22:49:17] antilect, check also this: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html - it changed, but when you one company as the coppyright holder, shit like that happens, and Oracle did it to many times already [22:49:18] URL Title: Free but Shackled - The Java Trap [22:49:33] have* one [22:49:43] a great skill takes time to learn, but opinions and politics is just a change of thought. [22:49:58] (sort of atleast ;-) ) [22:50:07] (they keep changing licenses back and forth, stopping development, etc.) [22:51:10] when you perhaps later on start working on a bigger project it can be wise to actually think about the politics and such so as you want go into traps, etc and that the project can live on the way you want it to. [22:51:36] won't* [22:52:50] when I went to school I was very hung up on java. but now afterwords I realise that what I learned or what I could have learned would be worth alot more than being pissed on java and not atleast try to get along and just learn to code. [22:53:14] but I would not start to learn it at home. [22:53:17] now. [22:54:10] antilect: I have found two nice python courses I might take. it's at distance, would be great. [22:54:27] (could be more now, was a couple of years ago I looked it up) [22:57:32] getting an education in the system to then work outside the system is the best option imo if you don't have time or the possibility to learn it all on your own/with help from others. [22:57:51] and in the system you might have to go on ends with what you actually believe in. [23:02:27] btw, when it comes to Qt http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/05/31/202238/Free-Software-Faces-a-Test-With-Qt [23:02:28] URL Title: Free Software Faces a Test With Qt - Slashdot [23:03:02] DNS, you know about this, am i right? [23:03:40] Nokia started to sleep more with Gates few months ago [23:05:39] lukas: i'm not worried about qt, it's has a wide user base, both endusers and developers. [23:05:43] it* [23:06:34] lukas: but all/most funding from one source is never good for free software. it concentrates power and control even thou the license is free. [23:06:45] sorry im a bit distracted atm but i will read it l8erz [23:06:52] cool [23:07:00] i'm going soon anyways, not going to write to much. [23:07:18] it's a festival here in the village, but i'm dead tired. boosting with a bit of caffein. [23:07:39] then go back. [23:14:19] maat you read decision tech then if you're referring to the black swans. hope that text did a number on your brain :-) [23:14:25] DNS lmms git where is it? [23:15:09] lukas: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2200968&cid=36301658 [23:15:10] URL Title: Free Software Faces a Test With Qt - Slashdot [23:16:50] now gtg [23:21:41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt [23:21:42] URL Title: Fear, uncertainty and doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [23:21:43] ?? lmms [23:21:44] lmms[1]: Linux Multi Media Studio (LMMS) is a free cross-platform alternative to commercial programs like FL Studio®, which allow you to produce music with your computer. This includes the creation of melodies and beats, the synthesis and mixing of sounds, and arranging of samples. You can have fun with your MIDI-keyboard and much more; all in a user-friendly and modern interface. http://lmms.sourceforge.net [23:21:46] lmms[2]: The latest LMMS v0.4.11 (for Ubuntu 10.04-11.10) you can download at https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/sound [23:21:54] the git you can find at the lmms website [23:22:16] ehm i need to change lmms[2] its now 0.4.12 [23:23:33] rest well scrdcow :)