[00:10:53] *** Joins: dLrG (DeLrge@RBOSE-bpkesh.tbcn.telia.com) [00:12:16] hi dLrG =) [00:15:32] *** Quits: DeLrge (DeLrge@RBOSE-bpkesh.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [00:20:04] *** Joins: Kebap23 (Max@RBOSE-br2124.adsl.hansenet.de) [00:22:02] -nobody- Kebap has joined on FREENODE [00:23:59] -nobody- Kebap23 has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [00:24:37] *** Quits: antilect (antil@RBOSE-248fom.bredband.comhem.se) (Connection closed) [00:27:36] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-hftmap.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [00:49:08] scrdcow: guess we'er the only ones awake as usual [00:50:28] maybe so. [01:03:12] Caly: heyho :) [01:35:05] o/ [02:46:15] it's possible that you are right [02:46:31] ;-) [02:46:52] Caly: what's keepin ya awake tonite? [02:47:08] dunno [02:47:42] comotion: mainly my bladder i think, drank alot of tea and beer today [02:47:51] :-) [02:48:01] and also, good company on IRC =P [02:48:09] a small bladder you say.. [02:48:13] action in the Swedish channel [02:48:35] you gotr me wondering whats keepin me up [02:48:47] well, not small nessecarily, but functioneing and overloaded [02:48:49] don't feel like sleepin yet [02:48:54] same [02:49:09] wish I had a beer here [02:49:18] sadly my connection is super slow, so I can pretty much only do mail and IRC. [02:49:26] though I's got something just as good [02:49:34] I wish i had pot here [02:49:41] yeah, irc is all right over a shitty line [02:49:47] then I would send you the fucking beer ;) [02:50:05] then maybe you should come here, we'll swapp [02:50:23] yep, IRC stays unaffected pretty much, besides the random disconnection [02:50:40] sounds like a plan, if we'd been in the same town or something [02:50:53] netsplits? that's the problem [02:50:54] I'm saving up to go to Spain asap [02:50:59] yeah [02:51:02] yea you gon back again? [02:51:07] but mostly it works swell [02:51:23] youp, gonna stay put this time I hope. [02:51:31] oh wow [02:51:49] i put new sprockets on my bike today [02:52:14] we might be buying an appartment [02:53:22] ok [02:53:32] why not get a small house instead [02:53:38] hope you strike gold in spain dude [02:53:39] get self-sufficient [02:53:47] can't get a house, gotta stay in city [02:53:52] well, I will do my best =P [02:53:58] why? [02:54:10] in shitty city we stay cause you can't always have your way [02:54:39] I'll strike gold in the sense that I'll get out of the money-dependency [02:54:48] tssk, lame excuse [02:54:51] life is here, so if I move now I move away from life again [02:54:51] Easy money! [02:55:13] "gotta" sounds harsch bro [02:55:34] you norwegian vikings out to muster up enough courage to go live in the swamps, forests, whatever [02:55:37] right [02:55:39] ought* [02:56:05] yea it should pose no problem eh [02:56:11] he's not even Norwegian, stupid man moved NORTH o_O [02:56:19] :D [02:56:33] haha. never claimed i be smart [02:56:37] haha [02:56:50] ^^ [02:56:56] self-sufficient is key, the key to your new house in the forest [02:57:17] at least now you can claim to be cool(d) [02:58:57] And soon I can say I'm hot ;) [02:59:13] :-) [02:59:18] hmm, firefights in syria :-( [02:59:28] yes :/ [02:59:43] shit's been going on for a year now? [02:59:45] well, actually I have some plans in the direction of selfsufficiency [02:59:57] we have some land in .pl that could do for passive housing [03:00:16] that's brilliant :) [03:00:18] but we're all too busy with life here [03:01:35] family.girlfriend.plans.friends.stuff.job (in that order) [03:02:17] comotion: get on the program with lukas then! [03:02:53] he neds co-conspirators in .pl [03:03:07] lukas and me been talking a little. seems they are doing some stuff in .pl that's pretty cool. maybe I'll check him out on my way thru .pl next time [03:03:44] but I'm not movin back there again, yet [03:04:34] family is #1 [03:05:35] yea. gotta help family.hard to know how, but gotta [03:05:50] freedom is #1 [03:06:09] freedom is the target :) [03:06:14] hopefully the family are on the same notes [03:06:22] because you cant go without the family x) [03:06:26] I guess. [03:06:58] freedom to do what you want or freedom to do the right thing? [03:07:02] why not? [03:07:11] both and the same [03:07:14] nope [03:07:36] you will never have the freedom to do what you want [03:07:38] if they were the same my life would be a whole lot simpler [03:07:49] For me it is. [03:07:53] but you can increase your amount of freedom to do what you want [03:07:55] you always have the freedom to do what you want [03:08:12] comotion_: well, due to the fact that other people have an interest in what you do, it's hard [03:08:24] but doing what you want requires sacrifices and yeilds consequences [03:08:43] I need freedom to not be part of the destructive society, and to contribute and benefit the planet as best as I can [03:09:12] freedom isn't free [03:09:18] let's be very practical about this and say, my idea of increasing freedom is not having to go to work everyday to pay for my debt, having to wake up in the morning and work on things I truly believe in = more freedom [03:09:22] freedom doesn't do that.. people deciding do that [03:10:28] Fat64: yes you can either win the lottery, sleep on the streets or move to the forest to do that [03:10:42] all the rest of us compromise [03:11:20] how about freedon to choose one's family? [03:11:20] winning the lottery would make me use money, I feel bad using this system. so no :) [03:11:39] also feeling that my actions actually are benefitial to the world, not the absolute opposite [03:11:59] that makes me feel more free somehow, but it's so hard to pin down this to definitions [03:12:00] Caly: that is a valid freedom :-) [03:13:34] but i can't choose my family. i can choose my friends (sometimes) and I can choose whom I love (sometimes) [03:14:48] suppose the friends I love are family, still they might not agree [03:18:44] they'll still want the cash [03:33:17] well, I have alot of shit to do tomorrow, so I'm heading off to bed now [03:33:35] g'nity Caly [03:33:46] i guess i should follow suit [03:35:32] ok, good night to you to then =) [03:37:33] cash is king [03:55:04] cash is a bitch and here value drops everyday [03:55:08] *her [03:56:12] >_< [03:56:12] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Quit: Leaving) [03:56:13] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Quit: Leaving) [03:59:56] too many fukkin around with her or wo0t [05:58:41] *** Joins: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) [08:33:05] -nobody- Kebap has left on FREENODE [08:56:42] *** Quits: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [08:58:09] DNS777: ack [09:15:09] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-ja81js.mobileonline.telia.com) [09:15:15] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [09:15:16] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [09:21:02] o/ [09:25:28] :) [09:25:49] good morning chrono [09:25:55] good moring [09:26:36] still feeling a little fuckedup, had very long discussion about the future of our planet last night [09:27:08] ah, that could make your head spin for shure [09:27:55] yeah, but in a good way, at the moment I am trying to paint the big picture of today/tomorrow, ignoring everything we don't like or deprecate in order to keep it happy :) [09:28:22] sounds like RBOSE daily business =P [09:29:01] instead of "fighting" against an old and crumbling system (like a bling old man who is afraid someone will take away they kane they use to hit people with) [09:29:07] bling=blind) [09:29:29] I'm sitting here making calls to prepare my trip to Spain. Ordering car parts, talking to embassys about animal travel code, and such [09:29:30] we should just focus on changing whatever we want an start living accordingly, inviting everyone else to do so as well [09:30:15] yep, you'd get alot of agreement on that notion in here I recon =) [09:30:49] If I wouldn't assume that there would be no point in being here :) [09:31:43] people in here have quit jobs, dismanteled private businesses, moved together collectively, gotten out of bank dependencies, turned to vegans and much more in just theese last two years or so. [09:32:22] and ofc, been quite productive on the other end. [09:32:24] same here, quit my job, reduced the amount of money needed to survive to "almost" nothing [09:32:46] whilst building a mobile hackerspace und all kinds of cool and efficient electronic/picofab systems [09:33:14] because I have the time to do so now, instead of running 10 hours a day in a useless treadmill that sucks out every little bit of energy I had [09:34:21] I sold my house and workshop, got out of debt, ditched the girlfriend that wasn't supportive enough, drastically reduced the consumption of meat and diaries, gotten rid of 99% of my possesions, and aquired a shit load of sustainabiltiy and survivalism skills [09:37:35] *** Joins: Caly_ (Caly@RBOSE-3i1uob.mobileonline.telia.com) [09:37:43] ah, drop the ism's :) if you follow survival"ism" - at some point sooner or later the concept of oponents and competition will reappear, making a new world and sharing impossible, because our biology originaly never seemed to have considered such an approach [09:38:03] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZadCj8O1-0#! [09:38:03] any kind of ism seems to fail in the long run [09:38:04] You4Tube 2[Title] Rob Reid: The $8 billion iPod 2[Category] Tech 2[Duration] 0:05:12 2[Views] 278066 2[Rating] 4.95 2[Uploaded] 2012-03-15 2[Description] http://www.ted.com Comic author Rob Reid unveils Copyright Math (TM), a remarkable new field of study based on actual numbers from entertainment industry lawyers and lobbyists. TEDTalks is a daily video podcast of the best talks and performances from the TED Conference, where the [09:38:34] chrono: I wouldn't call survivalism an 'ism though [09:38:47] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [09:39:19] btw, If you said something before i reconnection I missed it. [09:39:22] watch some survivalist video's and webpages though, of course we wouldn't call it an ism in the beginning, but the tendency to become a classic ism is already there ;) [09:39:37] *reconnected [09:39:58] Caly_: i don't think you missed anything [09:40:13] perhaps, I'm not dogmatic about it, nor do I attach any group affiliation to it. [09:40:52] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Connection closed) [09:41:23] I'm marely making myself educated on the possibilities of moneyless living and winderness survival [09:41:26] ok [09:41:44] and that never hurts, self-education rules! [09:41:47] :) [09:41:48] *** Caly_ is now known as Caly [09:42:31] personally i dont have time to sit a round and wait for others to teach me stuff [09:43:20] word [09:43:45] that and you also want to learn from different sources, that you yourself can reflect the teaching into your own thinking using more than one source [09:44:08] kalken: or beeing stupid enough to expect anyone else to do anything for you at all [09:44:23] hehe yeah that to. [09:44:54] There's only one individual that I can rely on for anything at all, and that's me. [09:45:09] be the change [09:45:26] it's like the whole world at the moment, a lot of people know, that the world isn't "right" they way it is, but feel they can't do anythin about it, so they don't even try, just sitting there, hoping someone else will change it, so I guess it's our job then to make the first move to show people how we do it and how easily they could do it too [09:45:40] i usually also focus on helping people that are interested in learning something, rather than just solving the problem they have infront of them :) [09:45:56] indeed, teaching them how to teach themselves [09:46:06] has much bigger impact than simly solving it for them [09:46:23] chrono: indeed, I find myself knowing more than my highly educated doctor, simply because I can invest time end genuine interest in one specific sub-category of medecine. Same goes for nearly any genereal area of expertise. [09:47:23] chrono: most people in the west has never created anything new since the day they were born, and does not even know how to do it anymore, because of all others telling them what to do and what to think all the time [09:47:28] "Teach a man to reason, and he'll learn for a lifetime" [09:47:50] and then we expect people to make educated decisions? hmm [09:48:00] imho, trough the manner in wich we as hackers learn, we can accumulate a much broader interconnected knowledge about many things because we have the time and the will to do so. we want to leatn something for real. not just sit there like a doctor to repeat stuff to get a paper in the end that gives you some kind of right to do something (but they never really learned, they just wanted the paper to make more money) [09:48:01] <3 Richard Dawkins [09:48:42] indeed sir [09:53:23] I can easily say I've learnt more these last couple of years of unemployment and sick-leave than I have in my entire prior life [09:53:46] at least about things that really matters [10:00:12] I am trying to put that together on our about page (https://apollo.open-resource.org/mission:start) [10:00:34] it's not quite as "round" and finished as I want it to be, but in time... [10:00:36] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [10:00:38] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Changing host) [10:00:39] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [10:00:41] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [10:08:45] chrono: very nice! [10:09:40] chrono: you might be interested in a technology I'm sketching on here... [10:11:08] have nothing put up on the web so far, processing in my head, but it goas a little like this: Make a unmbrella-style large foldable solar concentrator, heating a boiler chamber to produce steam, wich in turn powers a tesla turbine with a generator. [10:14:25] The next step is to figure out a way to make it foldable in two ways, so that it could also serve as a kite wind turbine, through a geared system using the same generator. a simple solenoid cluth might even make the PMA genareator double as a solar tracker servo for the solar collector mode... [10:15:54] Caly: yeah, go for it [10:15:57] the intention was to make a system that could go ontop of a camper/trailer or bus/van usable in many geographic areas. [10:16:39] that is easily foldable to get out of the way in traffic, yet not using complex technologies such as PV [10:16:50] any creative solution to these basic kinds of "needs" should be tried refined, and it's important to encourage exactly that way of thinking :) [10:16:59] pv is not really complex [10:17:15] ofc, the steam is also a water purification method! [10:17:31] chrono: fabrication of PV is [10:17:46] I use PV for the basic electrical power needs, combined with wind/water where available and a small gasifier i can generate enough power to feed my highly efficient systems [10:17:59] cool [10:18:02] chrono: i love this: https://apollo.open-resource.org/mission:start [10:18:15] kalken: me too [10:18:27] =P [10:18:54] I am working on something a bit larger than this statement, i call "the big picture", I hope I can finish it today to show you guys and get your oppinion.. [10:19:03] i know a lot of people who are using bad programs, and who does not do anything useful with their free time and weekends, just because they dont know what to do, and how :D [10:19:10] it't not that they dont want to [10:19:16] exactly [10:19:27] its just that STARTINg an hackerspace is not even considered [10:19:47] most of them probably never even heard of a hackerpsace or really know what it's like [10:20:12] thats why i wanted to keep apollo mobile to spread the spirit [10:20:18] to offer a hackerspace to these people [10:20:23] chrono: i have a dream that every house eventually will have, what i call it a "karmalab" where people can go to learn, teach, help and fix things [10:20:31] does not even have to be computer-related [10:20:33] to let them get a feel for a "new world order" they can build themselves if they want to [10:21:19] chrono: yea. Sitting around waiting for some rich guy in congress to fix your problems, is proabably a bad idea :D [10:21:20] no, it's essential that hacking loses its ties to software/computer - That's why I chose to use the old Hackers movie slogan: "Hack the Planet" [10:21:42] new world DISorder ! [10:21:52] chrono: indeed [10:21:58] I heard I nice quote once in german, roughly interpreted: "If voting had the power to change anything, it would be forbidden!" [10:21:59] hacking is so much more :) [10:22:21] haha, word [10:22:41] chrono: where you from? [10:24:17] pouh, nowhere, anywhere really, born in poland, grown up in germany [10:24:20] you guys? [10:24:34] land of the vikings [10:25:13] the real first european guys to find americe :) [10:25:24] :) [10:26:11] america went from the land of the brave and the free, to the land of the poor and afraid. [10:26:12] chrono: cool, we have the FreeLab project headed by lukas here, and hi's wife anne from poland, DNS here is our IRC op guru, top contributor to Ubuntu, from Germany. Comotion is hackerspace leader in Oslo, also from Poland... [10:27:50] and yeah, me, kalken and some others heer are from Sweden. Calken is heading the karma project, workname kineco, a freeconomy wesite/tool that's gonna be aaaaaawesume! [10:28:16] and ofc you allready know elf-pavlik [10:31:05] Guest77262: hi there, new here? ( welcome! ) [10:31:08] btw, if any of you guys need a great router/computer of awesomeness i recommend TL-WR1043ND. 1GB lan, 300 MB wireless, and runs ddwrt like a pro :D [10:31:25] source? [10:31:48] Caly: http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/?model=TL-WR1043ND [10:31:49] URL Title: TL-WR1043ND - Welcome to TP-LINK [10:32:14] its a low budget router with high quality hardware... But ofc its locked hardware a the time... [10:32:50] Caly: the cool thing about it is that when hacked with ddwrt (or other linux variants) the router becomes a computer. [10:32:51] hmm, if ddwrt, can it utilise the USB connector with a USB hub, and/orr a USB 3G modem? [10:33:10] you can run a webservers, ssh, filesharing and everything :D [10:33:26] Caly: yes i think it can actually [10:33:28] okay... but you'd still need another computer to hook up screen and input devices I take it (?) [10:33:39] most importantly, mesh? [10:33:41] yeah. processor is not to fast [10:34:07] i'd probably go raspberrie pie if more processing was needed [10:34:16] if you can get one... [10:34:23] :) [10:34:56] i came to my sences and did not actually order one, because i have no need of one atm. [10:35:05] hehe [10:35:18] i thought it was better to save it for the guys who actually need one right now :D [10:35:26] yeah, new awesomnesses are to be around by the time we need to build our mesh [10:35:56] http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/ [10:35:57] URL Title: allwinner a10 [10:35:58] :D [10:38:42] yeah, that's another great one, read about it some week ago [10:39:57] i only wish that "someone" would put together a modular standard for devices, like the atx that exists for computers, but for mobile devices [10:40:20] so we can choose screen/case-ing or whatever for our selves [10:40:42] and it would be great to only switch processor and not the whole phone... [10:41:36] been saying that since I realized my HTC Hero was just a bunch of modules. .. [10:42:15] yeah :) Every product basically is. Its just that hardware developers make a lot of money by selling everything in quantity :D [10:42:30] thats why our pc's are starting to look like one piece again... [10:42:59] you know we have to buy our selves out of debt here.. atleast thats what they say... [10:44:22] Caly: can you imagine how many who could have been hackers, that is going to waist their lives writing crappy apps for these fucking i-things. [10:44:41] and users are turned into monkeys pressing red or green buttons [10:44:55] and life will be good as long as you pay... [10:47:00] yeah [10:47:00] fuck that. [10:47:00] with a passion [10:47:43] and the sad thing about it is that people are to uneducated about technology to even understand why it wrong to having to have 4-5 i-things (with exactly the same hardware specs on the inside) to be able to run their daily life [10:48:56] its not a coincidence that one cant make calls with an i-pad. :D [10:48:57] lol [10:49:27] or that the fucing i-things dont have usb ports, so you need a computer just for that [10:49:44] I think everyone here knows the nature of corpocratic precieved obsolecense [10:50:01] haha, yeah [10:50:07] lets hope so :D [10:51:13] the only thing left to hack at home is my tv. But i actually think someone said i could run linux on it. [10:52:10] and they're filled with such multitude of functions that they are allways the coolest thing, yet non of the components are ever of the latest/best performing standard, so people allways end up longing for the next version from day one of baying the current one. [10:52:10] fuck TV allready. [10:52:18] throw that shit out from the balcony [10:52:33] or at least disable the reciever in it. [10:52:38] oh. No its not connected to the tv network. Its only for internet content [10:52:46] with a large mallet [10:53:40] i actually threw the antenna cable out of the balcony a few years ago. [10:54:24] Caly, kalken, chrono: good morning =) [10:54:33] hey :D [10:54:37] * elf-pavlik sends greetings from Ulm [10:55:33] who participating in RBOSE does stuff like recording video materials? [10:55:35] gooOOOood morning elf-pavlik ! [10:55:45] hey =D [10:57:11] zum mate? [10:57:16] Ulm? [10:57:17] oh BTW i look forward to join an event in FreeLab in may! =) ping lukas [10:57:48] Ulm a city between Munich and Stuttgart [11:03:09] i hang out here with people from local 'datalove' group among others taking effort of opening up common transit data - small demo: http://ulmapi-de.no.de/map [11:03:10] URL Title: LiveMap – UlmApi.de [11:03:16] aha [11:03:23] I have too slow a connection to go find it on a map, but I'm gonna be driving through germany soon =P [11:03:45] and i hack on little app to get going with moneyless paralel way of using/supporting commontransit [11:04:10] my economy is fubar, otherwise I might have taken a detour to visit you, and DNS and Viper... [11:04:20] I'll revise that thought closer to departure though. [11:04:22] Caly: cool, keep in touch though i consider hitchhiking next days Paris -> Geneva -> Barcelona [11:04:42] I might be passing barcelona... [11:04:46] where DNS and Vipar stay [11:04:58] elf-pavlik: hmm... [11:05:04] like i said keep in touch wherever you go! [11:05:23] yeah [11:05:23] will do [11:05:38] =) [11:06:20] i guess you may also bump on chrono in more physical realm than this binary here ;) [11:06:24] As rotten as it may sound, if i find a co-driver that will help with fuel costs, it'll be prioritized [11:06:49] but since I don't hold much hope for that... [11:06:54] i had chat with a guy running this site: http://vegburner.co.uk/ [11:06:55] URL Title: Vegburner [11:07:01] and I hope you aren't allergic to cats [11:07:12] sounds familiar.. [11:07:26] i like cats =) [11:07:50] great [11:07:58] acctually i've spoken with him about 2 weeks ago on #ose-europe [11:08:24] oh... on mailing list you can find him - Darren using mail@vegburner.co.uk [11:12:26] *** Joins: Hakufu (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) [11:13:25] elf-pavlik: actually, I think Darren is here. [11:13:39] https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/irc new stuff is there :) [11:13:41] !hello all [11:13:41] URL Title: IRC : DNS [11:13:42] Heya #RBOSE! DNS777 asked me to greet you all, and thats what i just did. If anybody needs help, type !help [11:13:49] maybe some1 wants to try bitlbee [11:14:12] DNS777 hard at work <3 [11:14:17] http://bitlbee.org/ [11:14:18] URL Title: BitlBee - Home [11:14:19] :D [11:14:39] elf-pavlik: not here at the moment, but under some other nick (what was it again? hmm...) [11:15:09] *** Quits: Hakufu_ (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [11:16:08] Caly: DZR =) [11:17:44] !seen dzr [11:17:45] DNS777, DZR (Darren@RBOSE-heo.foo.143.190.IP) was last seen quitting #RBOSE 6 days 12 hours 56 minutes ago (12.03. 21:21) stating "Ping timeout: 241 seconds" after spending 31 minutes there. [11:19:14] elf-pavlik: yeah, that's it! [11:19:30] tnx [11:20:07] that's how i recognise the name vegburner, fomr him loggin in/out [11:20:18] or something like that. [11:22:12] elf-pavlik: comotion is also heavily into biodiesel. [11:23:23] elf-pavlik: oh, btw, barcelona, than you might want to chat it out in #hs-bcn on freenode =P [11:23:35] *then [11:28:19] Caly: cool, will keep in mind... now back on topoic of commontransit... [11:31:29] !idle [11:31:29] Our Idle King in #RBOSE is DustWolf... without any word since 1128 hour(s) and 11 minute(s) ^_^ [11:31:35] !idle lukas [11:31:36] lukas is idling in #RBOSE since 103 hour(s) and 54 minute(s)... [11:37:25] elf-pavlik: well, I can't plan precisely when I'm parting here, but it's propably within two weeks. Fisrt my adress has to activate here, moved it to my mom's, and I'm awaiting my renewed drivers license that is sidetracked somewhere currently. [11:38:33] Tomorrow I'll get a new rear slave cylinder fro the breaks that is leaking, and even though I might have to get me some imperial wrenches to fix it, I should be done replacing it during the day, if it stops snowing here... [11:39:52] I'm getting the main part of the fuel and toll money I'll need on the 25:th, so that is my earliest possible departure. [11:41:04] I also need to haul some stuff from my mom's to a friends place for storage when the weather allows, that will take a day or two, hopefully It's done this weekend or earlier. [11:50:50] Caly: cool! good luck with all your preparations and enjoy this adveture =) [11:52:33] sure will. when were you planning on departing? [12:03:28] *** Joins: Hakufu_ (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) [12:03:28] *** Quits: Hakufu (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) (Connection closed) [12:21:30] *** Joins: Hakufu (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) [12:21:31] *** Quits: Hakufu_ (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) (Connection closed) [12:25:33] *** Joins: Hakufu_ (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) [12:25:33] *** Quits: Hakufu (jonte@RBOSE-ocqjmp.bredband.comhem.se) (Connection closed) [12:35:06] elf-pavlik: moring ;) [12:35:46] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [12:37:26] Caly: within the next 2-3 month, it all depends on the trailer now, which i am still missing [12:38:01] In order to have somethin called hackerspace and being worth the name, we need more tools than could fit in just one big car [12:39:19] all techstuff here was completely downsized, bought, re-invented or hacked or become remotely self-sustainable. no more consumer products here, only to stuff to make new stuff [12:39:23] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-3i1uob.mobileonline.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [12:39:26] with the least amount of energy [12:46:22] chrono: hi =) [12:46:29] * elf-pavlik busy, busy, busy ;) [12:46:40] yeah, busy, busy, busy [12:46:44] :) [12:59:47] chrono: do you plan to show up on this one: https://easterhegg.ch ? [12:59:48] URL Title: EH2012: Easterhegg 2012 - The family event [13:01:05] i guess mo may show up as well: http://www.hackerbus.eu/blog/2012/03/11/first-tour-dates-switzerland-france-spain-portugal.html [13:01:06] URL Title: First Tour Dates: Switzerland, France, Spain, Portugal [13:09:04] elf-pavlik: I don't think so, too early, I need every day I have left here to maximize the output of my efforts, once I am on the road development and stuff will probably become much slower since I'll have to adapt to the live as such, learn how to get by and then can restart to optimize my livelong habits for this new life and environment [13:10:06] hmmm... but you could juts hh there to take a break from you nerd cave ;) [13:10:20] o catch a ride with someone from muCCC [13:10:35] anyhow you know what you do! [13:10:43] no break, caaaaveeee my home is my caaaave :) [13:11:15] I'll squeeze every possible bit of usability out of it until i finally let it go [13:12:15] it's a big step step for a caveman like me to take this new approach ;) but if I can believe in it and also consider it reasonable I don't see a reason why anyone else couldn't :) [13:13:53] you can do it! you can do it! [13:14:08] chrono: any xp with screen pringint ? (on cloting etc.) [13:14:26] s/pringint/printing/ [13:15:16] only a little bit and never done it myself, so just watched someone and theoretical knowledge... zes might be the first person I'd ask before going on the net [13:16:22] we could try to run textiles through the instant-propaganda-machine, to try thermal-transfer on textiles and see what we can get ;) [13:25:01] caly has experience with that stuff... [13:31:04] a mile from any neighbour [13:31:11] in a house I've built myself [13:34:19] Fat64: where? [13:36:44] :D [13:36:46] in his dreams :D [13:36:49] yes [13:36:58] listening to Henry David Thoreau - Walden! [13:38:09] well [13:38:45] that is the concept of inception, bring people to share a common dream, so that ever so slightly an idea will gain mass over time through more people [13:39:16] while still working in autonomous groups, each with their own goals, interests and identities [13:41:16] the only thing we need is a common shared dream, we can communicate and spread, like an umbrella, joining all these separates groups to one common idea we could associate ourselves with, a name, a brand, something that will appear to outstanders as one movement, instead for single groups doing different things [13:42:16] and must not be more than an idea/name - no website, no company, no non-profit organisation, just an idea, it will become invincible, because you cannot kill an idea, once it's in someones head [13:43:37] :)) [13:43:46] I look forward to these islands poppin up everywhere [13:44:03] so do I :) [13:44:12] farms, earthships, smaller societies based on new more empathic and resource based ideas [13:44:35] so whenever I want to travel, I know I am not alone in the struggle, I can always take myself to another island and learn more, and expand these circles [13:45:25] that is the other thing, many people want change, but they've been told forever how to behave and what to do, so they just comply, because the level of pain is not enough yet for them to (re)act [13:45:33] everyone feels alone [13:45:45] so if we can give people a much broader idea [13:46:34] that makes clear, that each island does its thing for itself, with own members, identity and philosphy but still working all together as a mass of autonomous groups to change the world, hack the planet [13:46:38] it's easier to accept the status quo and do what others do, this causes least amount of friction :) [13:46:50] yes [13:47:19] autonomous being an important factor in the quality of evolutionary ideas [13:47:29] like OSE [13:47:52] people will start to notice, if the same name/idea/brand pop-ups all over again. people tried that before, but that always failed, because all other groups would have had to give up their autonomous state, their identity and they didn't want to do that [13:48:37] in order to join one big group [13:49:04] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [13:49:05] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Changing host) [13:49:07] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [13:49:08] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [13:49:25] you guys are bose, open source ecology is and stays ose, apollo-ng is an stays apollo-ng but we're all part of "Hack the Planet" [13:49:41] idea [13:50:06] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-j10n8e.mobileonline.telia.com) [14:01:07] yes :) [14:01:22] the umbrella is a very inspiring thing [14:02:40] Fat64: meaning? [14:12:23] I've started to work an a world map, trying to put all those ideas into visual context, I call it "the big picture" [14:12:26] https://apollo.open-resource.org/media/the-big-picture.png [14:12:49] it's still a very early draft [14:13:01] meaning of what? [14:13:07] and I'm not quite finished with it [14:13:22] nice image :) [14:14:01] apollo-ng sounds like a hackerspace on a global scale? [14:14:10] not at all [14:14:30] apollo-ng is just my "autonomous group" just like, rbose or ose [14:15:05] we all operate autonomously, incidently that happened just by "natural" development and should be kept for numerous reasons [14:15:23] I reacted to the small fabrication units thing :) [14:15:51] this will make global technical and social interaction and sharing inbetweeen AG's possible hwile still maintaining own identity and goals, much more diversity and security this way [14:16:12] someone/thing can disturb or eliminate a group, but no one kann kill an idea [14:16:27] Fat64: what was that about umbrellas? [14:17:01] the smal fab thing should be something every AG eventually may pick up, to server locally for the community, build things, with plans from someone else (another AG) [14:17:26] Caly: it was a reference to my saying erlaier, perhaps you were off jsut then [14:18:41] that we also need some kind of umbrella idea/name/brand that links us all together, so that our public impact and reception has way more mass than if each group is communicating to the public only referring to themselves as AG and not mentioning the part of a bigger movement. This will always make it look as just small groups that do something else without a common link [14:20:00] Fat64: it's more like Apollo-NG is working on interesting stuff to support the "Hack the Planet" Movement... [14:20:59] and we all work on what we want to, all contributing to the big global thing, with fun, motivation and lot's of diversity, because there are no rules to be applied top-bottom, from a "central" organization [14:24:23] sorry for my disrespectful spelling, but I've managed to put half a cup of sweet tea into my keaboard, so sometimes the keys just stick at the bottom and confuse me [14:25:30] chrono: nice big picture visualisation concept. [14:25:55] Caly: the idea that these organizations, movements are coming together and shares some fundamental ideas or ideologies, making it sort of an umbrella [14:27:43] I was on another mailing-list, proposing something like I did just here, and they really blew me off - so instead of taking it personal I tried to find out why, what the mechanic was, that made these people reject the idea and my feeling was, that the "but we lose our own identity, when we join another _proclaimed to be the big group_ hting [14:27:57] Fat64: yeah, in early RBOSe development there was some efforts to make something of that kind, but more narrow with Atlas Open Initiative, RBOSE, and some more group as starters. [14:28:48] and as I mean by umbrella, I mean that feeling not an actual organization controlling it :) [14:28:56] okey [14:29:51] yeah, just an idea/name, nothing more - that inherently transfers a certain kind of "what we want to do on a global scale and we are doing it right now, se group a, b, c, N [14:30:30] cut I totally like the notion of including everything new, not only free technology, but also all other kinds of transitional movoents and organisations, like transition towns, avaaz, telecomix, earthships, permaculture, sustainable housing groups, intentinal communities like ecovillages and such. [14:30:42] like IC.org [14:31:02] like a badge, we all carry, saying: "We support and work for a global movement" so that people we come in contact to see that there is way more than just this one group, with one name doind stuff, but we all are [14:31:31] indeed [14:32:06] chrono: alot of the efforts in RBOSE is to gather all the open/free projects as you see in the open lists [14:32:13] without a website or anything else, something completely independent like a name or name for an idea [14:32:51] but it is a group, build around people, same thing applies, if for any reason rbose is taken out of the game, the website goes down, the name is gone [14:33:15] the next step is the freeconomic site kalken are working on, and the technology-tree that lukas are working on, to be able to disect any technology into sub-technologies down to how to make the most basic of tools up to the more intricate complex ones. [14:33:40] so in my modell, rbose is a part of the big picture, tasked by choice to help all other AG's to find themselves in a more administrative kind of fashion [14:33:50] yeah, redindancy of ionformation and networking is important. [14:33:54] which is totally a great thing to speed up communication and collaboration efforts [14:34:00] yeah [14:34:13] *redundancy *information [14:34:57] no single group can be the big one, that is the mistake we made numerous times before, that always one group tried to unite all others "under" them [14:35:10] word! [14:35:15] it never worked and probably never will [14:35:23] indeed [14:37:40] so, a part of Apolo-NG's Mission is to work on this modell, refine it, make it more comprehensible and to bring it out into the minds of people, where it hopefully can grow over time, from a subconscious level to a change in behaviour [14:38:37] we're also very much against clinging on to group affiliations, even if many here certainly do identify themselves as rbose-people, as the atmosphere here is so nice and supportive [14:38:59] the crux is, we hackers despise being marketed to, so we despise the act of marketing itself, we'd rather do things [14:39:39] doing stuff is 50%, telling people about it in a way they can get it the other 50% [14:39:46] neither for itself can change anything [14:40:35] absolutely true. Most of us here came from places with all-talk-and-no-play [14:40:37] so, at least some groups will have to dedicate time and effort into public interface communication [14:41:06] yeah, me to [14:41:56] We have attracted much more interest and support than significanlt larger groups that focus on "informing" people about problems, without having real tangable sollutions, other than in some cases, on paper or rendered in a video [14:42:26] of course [14:43:09] people whine and bitch all day, but they never do stuff or come up with an alternative. I can't be like that, if I don't like something it's my job to do something about or just stop bitching about it [14:43:13] the more we deny other groups collaboration due to them not beeing open, transparent on non-profit, the more support we get from serious communities and individuals. [14:43:45] wich is hillarious and utterly satisfying ^^ [14:44:23] my notions exactly chrono [14:44:28] be the change. [14:44:33] from my point of view, any action we take to be "against" something is futile and wasted. we should ignore everything faulty and start working on things we'd like to see on a global scale, inviting people, and if the join with free will, they will make a difference [14:44:51] yup [14:46:05] we don't force, we don't preach, we just do, and if people see how happy and productive we can be, they might give it a try, a few at first... [14:46:29] presicely what we preach here =) [14:46:35] but thats also involves sharing our resources and knowledge and experiences with them, which in turn is marketing again :) [14:47:59] I get more interest just going about searching for parts for my projects, talking to store clerks, scrapyard owners, makers and friends, than I ever did trying to preach change. [14:48:45] true, especially when shopping for esoteric stuff when people don't get what you need that special part for :) [14:48:57] they get really interested in what you're building :) [14:49:30] Allways thinking in feedback loops. If I get a part like say, a short piece or huge dimention PVS suage pipe to make windmill blades out of, I tell them what it's for, get agreat discount, and then send them pictures of the ongoing or finished projects, and they get thrilled and proud to have beeing a part of it, yet having done nothing practically [14:49:42] *PVC [14:50:16] next they will be contacting me, or gone searching for how to do it themself [14:50:31] (This is an example from ral life) [14:50:31] *real [14:50:51] haha, what you said, I said pretty much. [14:50:54] =P [14:51:30] they all want to be a part of something bigger, they're just caught up in the system that told them not to forever. It's not their fault, we are the lucky ones, that through whatever it was, that happened differently in our lifes, to make us think like this sooner [14:51:44] well, I need to hop in the shower, drag my ass to the unemployement office to tell them I moved my adress to here, and get with the program to score some tax refound for fuel money to Spain =P [14:52:19] technically i should send out cvs and try to get a job, but wtf? there is much more important work to be done ) [14:52:21] chrono: yeah, I think you hit the nail there. [14:52:58] i go cook up some tasty and healthy food :) [14:53:07] precisely. [14:53:17] yo do that, bon aptit [14:53:20] laters yall [15:05:04] now I must learn what is a TLUD [15:05:08] https://apollo.open-resource.org/lab:projects:helios [15:17:40] Fat64: it's explained on the page a bit, you can google fot TLUD as well, there are some videos of simpler type TLUD, basically it's a combined biomass-gasifier and gas-burner in one simple device [15:18:31] so you can create an very high amount of energy (in thermal BTU) by burning the gas that comes from the pyrolisation of biomass [15:18:31] yes, I'm youtubing [15:18:44] because my idea this summer was set on building a rocket stove heater [15:18:53] now to build an idea of the differences of these two ideas :) [15:18:55] helios goes a step further using a different approach in secondary air pre-heating [15:19:00] ok [15:19:37] and using TEG (thermo electric generators) to produce power to run picofab devices or a laptop at the same time [15:20:18] so boiling tea or cooking a meal is more efficient, since more energy from biomass is converted into usable energy [15:20:29] at the same time [15:21:12] my theory is, that a controlled apporach, with sensors and a microcontroller will give TLUDs an extra kick regarding clean combustion and fuel tolerance [15:22:16] it's also great, when neither solar, water or wind power can be used at some time, that one still has a fallback devices to create heat and electricity from a view sticks of wood collected from the ground [15:23:26] since I haven't yet started to skill welding I'm a bit lost right now, how to produce the first prototype to prove it :) [15:24:55] the rocket stove is a nice concept, easy to build and is like a hobo-stove, but is still a wood burning stove [15:25:40] tluds are by design gas burners which use the heat to force gasification (thats why there is the distinction between primary/secondary air) [15:25:59] regular wood combustion has always air everywhere [15:36:20] DIY TEG , is go [15:36:42] I hope instructables has something on it [15:44:44] for this setup you need high-temp tegs with a deltaT of more than 150°C better 200°C to get usable power, I haven't anything DIY in that range yet, if you do, give me a pintch :) [16:09:01] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [16:12:41] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [16:43:06] *** Joins: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) [19:11:39] *** Joins: Viper (Viper@RBOSE-fnj.k3a.168.192.IP) [19:14:24] Hi folks [19:16:14] `f [19:16:14] Viper: Break into jail and claim police brutality. [19:19:22] lol [19:19:26] hi viper [19:19:45] `f [19:19:46] DNS777: You're at the end of the road again. [19:19:53] :o [19:20:01] again? [19:20:04] `f [19:20:04] chrono: My only love sprung from my only hate! Too early seen unknown, and known too late! -- William Shakespeare, "Romeo and Juliet" [19:20:07] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-fksodc.mobileonline.telia.com) [19:20:12] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [19:20:13] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [19:23:00] chrono: I'm a decent welder, should we meet up ;) [19:24:13] definitely :) I hope even sooner than later, but I'd also have to figure out a source where to get the inox stainless steel for the chamber [19:27:47] ?? hurd [19:27:48] hurd[1]: Hurd stands for Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons. And, then, Hird stands for Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth. [19:27:50] hurd[2]: The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. It is a collection of servers that run on the Mach microkernel to implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and other features that are implemented by the Unix kernel or similar kernels (such as Linux). http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ [19:27:52] hurd[3]: Debian GNU/Hurd: http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/index [19:28:03] ?? help [19:28:04] help[x]: No defintion found for word. [19:28:06] :o [19:28:10] ?? bible [19:28:10] bible[1]: Bible content: Absurdity: 1339 | Injustice: 1280 | Cruelty and Violence: 1018 | Intolerance: 647 | Contradictions: 440 | Number of people killed by god: 2 391 421+ [19:28:12] bible[2]: Annotated bible point by point and much more, here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com [19:28:14] bible[3]: Details of killing here: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html [19:28:16] bible[4]: http://i44.tinypic.com/28ryxhi.jpg [19:44:01] ,qr [19:44:01] Viper: Quote #150: "There was never a good war or a bad peace. ~ Benjamin Franklin" (added by dns at 01:48 AM, November 16, 2010) [19:46:02] ,qr [19:46:02] Viper: Quote #31: "It's surprising how many persons go through life without ever recognizing that their feelings toward other people are largely determined by their feelings toward themselves, and if you're not comfortable within yourself, you can't be comfortable with others. ~ Sydney J. Harris" (added by dns at 01:29 PM, August 04, 2010) [19:46:29] ,qr [19:46:29] Viper: Quote #39: "With realization of one's own potential and self-confidence in one's ability, one can build a better world. ~ Dalai Lama" (added by GhettoTux at 03:58 PM, August 04, 2010) [19:51:08] *** Parts: Guest77262 (tom@RBOSE-a2hinp.gtom.eu) [19:52:17] chrono: so why stainless? [19:53:24] -nobody- magnetron has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [19:54:01] Caly: well it doesn't really make sense if the chmaber rots away due to high temperatures, temporary moist environment and lot's of possibility to rust. the things we build and the resources we use to build it should always result in resilient and reliable designs [19:55:32] same material as external stainless chimney pipes (could be used as the basis for example [19:57:55] sure, you can make a tube out of any sheet metal as well. [19:58:10] well you can :) [19:58:34] go salvage trendy kitchen apliances at the local recycle station [19:58:51] you can rivet it [20:05:56] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [20:09:25] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [20:14:12] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [20:14:14] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [20:15:03] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-tgkncu.mobileonline.telia.com) [20:16:00] *** Joins: Caly_ (Caly@RBOSE-4rq8a4.mobileonline.telia.com) [20:16:11] http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/03/19/1433216/the-pirate-bay-plans-servers-in-the-sky?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=facebook [20:16:12] Caly_'s URL: http://x0.no/3dcb [20:16:15] URL Title: The Pirate Bay Plans Servers In the Sky - Slashdot [20:17:25] in the SKY! [20:19:43] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [20:20:24] hmm [20:20:45] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [20:20:47] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [20:23:12] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-tgkncu.mobileonline.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [20:39:59] sudo make sandwich_with_butter_and_cheese [20:40:10] * DNS777 is waiting [20:44:42] ^^ [20:45:22] *** Caly_ is now known as Caly [20:46:54] compile seems to fail and no error log :/ [20:47:42] *** Joins: Caly_ (Caly@RBOSE-omlacb.mobileonline.telia.com) [20:50:16] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [20:52:26] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-4rq8a4.mobileonline.telia.com) (Connection closed) [21:02:00] *** Quits: Caly_ (Caly@RBOSE-omlacb.mobileonline.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [21:02:24] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [21:02:25] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [21:02:31] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:02:46] -nobody- Caly_ has joined on FREENODE [21:02:54] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Caly_ [21:05:25] no error log :( [21:05:34] my fatled is showing progress [21:09:35] *** Joins: Caly_ (Caly@RBOSE-bkgl7g.mobileonline.telia.com) [21:09:40] *** Caly_ is now known as Clay [21:09:52] *** Quits: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [21:09:54] *** Clay is now known as Caly [21:10:23] fucking crap connection =( [21:11:36] *** Joins: Caly_ (Caly@RBOSE-lsli5j.mobileonline.telia.com) [21:13:59] driving me insane... [21:14:25] -nobody- Caly_ has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [21:18:26] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [21:18:31] :( [21:18:34] offline everyzing! [21:19:34] grr [21:19:41] *** Caly_ is now known as Caly [21:27:36] -nobody- Caly_ has joined on FREENODE [21:27:37] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Caly_ [21:29:45] ♥ ♫ ♥ ♫♫ ♥ ♥☺ [21:30:26] -nobody- nick change by Caly_ to Calyp on FREENODE [21:31:35] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Client Quit) [21:31:49] -nobody- Calyp has joined on FREENODE [21:31:50] -nobody- mode change by ChanServ on FREENODE: +v Calyp [21:33:20] ,quote random [21:33:20] Caly: Quote #180: "When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy”. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life. ~ Kyle" (added by Evil at 11:27 PM, June 25, 2011) [21:33:42] ,quote random [21:33:43] Caly: Quote #26: "Eventually the revolutionaries become the established culture, and then what will they do? ~ Linus Torvalds" (added by dns at 01:36 AM, August 04, 2010) [21:33:54] ,quote random [21:33:54] Caly: Quote #197: "A government wich takes your money by force like a common thief, will use this stolen money to further enslave you, and to prevent any rebellion on your part -Olga Struthio" (added by Caly at 02:30 PM, August 09, 2011) [21:57:23] ,qr [21:57:23] DNS777: Quote #112: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system. ~ Al Gore" (added by dns at 11:07 PM, August 19, 2010) [21:57:47] so true so true [21:57:49] lol [21:58:28] this guy! [21:58:35] unbelievable [21:59:31] now he gets rich trading carbon option shares... [22:00:16] >_> [22:00:19] ,qr [22:00:19] DNS777: Quote #184: "Freedom is not the same as openness. You can abuse someone openly." (added by Evil at 12:43 AM, July 08, 2011) [22:00:52] ,qr [22:00:52] DNS777: Quote #208: "Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. -Henry David Thoreau" (added by Caly at 03:20 AM, September 07, 2011) [22:03:26] \o/ [22:30:47] hm [22:30:55] ,qr [22:30:55] Caly: Quote #129: "As a rule, men worry more about what they can't see than about what they can. ~ Julius Caesar" (added by dns at 09:58 PM, October 11, 2010) [22:35:11] -nobody- Calyp has quit FREENODE (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [22:39:02] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [23:41:44] *** Quits: Viper (Viper@RBOSE-fnj.k3a.168.192.IP) (Connection closed)