[00:02:38] *** Quits: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-b8raf0.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Connection closed) [00:02:50] *** Joins: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-b8raf0.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [00:03:05] *** Quits: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-b8raf0.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Connection closed) [00:07:38] *** Joins: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) [00:10:00] Hello [00:20:14] *** Quits: Cyclo (cyclo@RBOSE-pdk.uv3.156.78.IP) (Connection closed) [01:17:08] ello [01:20:58] *** Joins: Kebap23 (Max@RBOSE-3vn3nc.adsl.alicedsl.de) [01:28:28] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-bp83ll.adsl.hansenet.de) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [01:49:29] *** Quits: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [01:50:19] *** Joins: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) [01:50:49] *** DZR is now known as Guest36719 [01:55:05] *** Guest36719 is now known as DZR [04:22:16] *** Quits: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [04:30:56] *** Joins: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) [06:17:52] *** Quits: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [06:18:11] *** Joins: DZR (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) [06:18:41] *** DZR is now known as Guest79015 [06:40:12] *** Joins: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) [06:42:54] *** Joins: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) [06:43:27] *** Quits: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) (Quit: Leaving.) [06:44:14] *** Joins: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) [06:54:24] *** Quits: Guest79015 (Darren@RBOSE-o67.01c.92.190.IP) (Connection closed) [09:07:26] *** Quits: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [09:51:51] chrono: ping: sendto: No route to host [09:54:15] kalken: ? [09:54:31] you pinged me yesterday :D [09:54:44] host was unavailable [09:55:50] kalken: ah, i c, I'm kinda used to et this message instantly and not really wait for timeout ;) [09:59:45] yeah :) [10:20:02] chrono: i'm working right now in a resource-sharing system that is built along the lines as we talked about a few days ago. (The problem is not that people dont have money, but that everybody is expected to sell out to the highest bidder) [10:20:39] the idea it self is pretty complete and solid, but still documentation is lacking [10:20:48] we are developing in backbone.js and bootstrap [10:20:59] and we have a nosql (couchdb) backend to this [10:23:52] chrono: the problem right now is that we know exactly what to do, but it's hard to allocate time to actually focus on doing it [10:24:17] i have been thinking about going down to work part-time just to have time over during the week to work on this [10:36:19] kalken: yeah I know what you mean [10:36:39] in order to get apollo on the road I had to quit my job sicne there wasn't enough time left [10:36:56] chrono: yeah. [10:37:40] I hope I will get enough "comunity-support" to sruvive, but tht's also part of the concept, to show and prove (so I hope) that on a small scall - which Apollo is - it's already possible to live on a indirect trade sharing/open economy [10:37:42] i build rather complex stuff (server environments) at work so my mental state is sort of low when i come home after 8 h of that :D [10:38:08] kalken: tell me about it, I was system/network/security admin for big companies for over 10 years [10:38:20] chrono: what we are building right now will eventually make people need much less money [10:38:24] you get home and you're more "finished" that the guys doing heavy body work [10:38:28] just because they benifit from sharing resources [10:40:08] i feel that most people who try to figure out alternative economies misses the really big point. And that is that an economy where you always are expected to have something to trade, has a built in unjustice in the system itself [10:40:28] and if one does that, one can only compensate for the unfairness after that [10:41:01] and as we all know. People are very good at optimizing behaviours that is benificial for them [10:41:43] and if that is being egoistic, self centered and only care about a few around oneself, we should not be surpriced when people start optimizing that [10:42:32] *surprised [10:44:35] money had become sort of an unspoken religion. And people buy into this dogma without even consider the big consequenses by doing so [10:44:53] but in reality its just pieces of paper with letters on them [10:45:32] giving that to someone has nothing with "value" to do, and everything to do with what happens in the other persons brain :) [10:48:04] chrono: by the way. My friend showed me a great seminar by jim rohn the other day. And he focus much on the beliefsystem one has. And talks about our own life philosofy [10:48:18] philosophy.. [10:49:00] anyways. It was really interesting to hear that most people who sort of "wake up" starts to question everything around them. Governments, society, weather, people etc [10:49:24] and by the time they are finished with everything they dont like, there is basically nothing left to work with :D [10:59:36] exactly [11:00:28] it's just like eating the red pill and later asking, why didn't I take the blue pill, because there really is no way of turning back to a perception of reality, where the world seems OKAY [11:01:46] I coulnd't continue to work anymore, it seemd couterproductive to administer the IT for a big insurance company, that spreads fear into people, to offer a product people pay money for to lessen the induced fear [11:03:39] chrono: hehe, i know exactly what you mean there :) [11:03:49] and even though I really made a lot of money (compared to average loans) it never really made a difference, because the costs have risen in such a way, that at the end of the month I still ended up at 0. The time however gave me the chance to collect resources (money) I transferred in to Apollo-NG and all its tools to create an open environment where people can "work" on a new world order :) [11:04:04] there comes a point when one asks. If i expect more of people, i need to show the way myself [11:04:20] everything else is just "talk" :D [11:05:16] lol. New world order is one of those sentenses that people have destroyed over time :D [11:05:56] indeed, I felt that I should stop bitching about the system and actually start doing something about it. The people out there may know that it's all fucked, but they don't have the confidence anymore, that they are actually able to change anything, so they sit there, whine about it and wait that someone else is going to fix it [11:06:11] so, let's be someone else [11:06:18] word :) [11:06:54] chrono: there is another side of the coin also. I have a lot of friends who basically say that its ok to fail, because others fail all the time [11:07:08] and from my point of few, putting energy into freely and creatively creating something new, instead of putting energy into fighting and bugfixing something old gave me much more drive [11:07:11] but its actually a catch 22, when others start to think the same [11:07:30] kalken: fail in which kind of sense? [11:08:00] people do tings they in their heart know are wrong everyday. Still they do it tomorrow also [11:08:14] without any plan of getting rid of that bad behaviour [11:08:40] kalken: indeed, it's not just about doind what we do, but also about telling, we as hackers should employ they methods of commercial marketing to market our idea of a better world to people, so that a few more may "take the red pill" and we infuse the process with more human life [11:09:08] actually, i think that has already sort of happend, through open source [11:09:15] or libre software.. [11:09:31] true, but this reaches mostly only people who already are somewhat different, like hackers [11:09:43] sharing the knowledge is saying that we share the control of the building blocks for tomorrow [11:09:52] exactly [11:10:03] next on the list should be to open source the rest of our society [11:10:16] so people can vote with their own actions [11:10:24] without having to ask for permission [11:11:39] when that happens most people will probably not wait for some guy far far away to fix their own reality [11:11:47] (read some politican far far away) [11:12:32] politics and monetary systems was set up basically to solve the problem with sharing resources [11:13:09] I think that won't even be necessary. From my point of view, by building a parallel and suitable system replacement on our own (which is what we actually are focussing on doing right now) [11:13:13] but it ended up as a controll mechanism because people optimized that into having the right to tell others what they can and cant do [11:13:25] "i own this" its mine. You cant have it... [11:13:35] we can simply make a living example of something better, that would invite all people by sheer niceness [11:13:41] sure [11:14:04] and although the transition might get a little rought at first [11:14:11] people are always optimizing. When its more benificial for them to share than to take, most will probably switch [11:14:14] in the end it will be enough for all of us [11:14:47] no money, indirect trade, working for the benefit of all [11:14:53] imagine just 1000 people sharing resources they dont always need. It will be enough to live happily ever after [11:15:00] and working and learning what one really loves [11:15:11] and not just seomthing one is supoosed to do [11:15:19] sure. Then you are talking about real life quality [11:15:29] https://apollo.open-resource.org/media/the-big-picture.png [11:16:59] "what better measure of what you were doing here, than what you can leave behind" :) [11:17:32] (from one of my favorite songs by peter gabriel) [11:19:17] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YY9AN2PC0Q [11:19:18] You4Tube 2[Title] Make Tomorrow - Peter Gabriel 2[Category] Music 2[Duration] 0:06:21 2[Views] 112 2[Rating] None 2[Uploaded] 2011-12-31 2[Description] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdA_V_HYdCI (Complete Version) [11:28:00] Unfortunately, this video is not available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not granted the respective music rights. [11:28:03] Sorry about that. [11:28:54] So we know that we need to do something :) [11:29:03] thanks for reminding us [11:39:21] lol [11:40:12] there is a big short term value in keeping knowledge scarce [11:40:35] sure [11:50:03] *** Joins: Hakufu (jonte@RBOSE-ma1m9h.bredband.comhem.se) [12:02:36] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-g6btni.mobileonline.telia.com) [12:21:54] *** Quits: chrono (chrono@RBOSE-f7e5jj.open-resource.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [12:25:16] *** Joins: chrono (chrono@RBOSE-f7e5jj.open-resource.org) [13:01:34] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [13:23:47] *** Quits: elf-pavlik (elf-pavlik@RBOSE-i4lgt0.arpa.manitu.net) (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) [13:24:10] *** Joins: elf-pavlik (elf-pavlik@RBOSE-i4lgt0.arpa.manitu.net) [13:46:31] *** Quits: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) (Quit: Leaving.) [13:46:54] *** Joins: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) [13:51:15] *** Quits: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) (Quit: Leaving.) [13:51:19] *** Joins: Hoogin (hoogin@RBOSE-ak2r0n.etanet.se) [14:24:43] i have a new idea for earth-hour. Lets start to turn off all the lamps and shit that we dont use every day, then we can take an hour per year to turn on everything we got, just to remind ourselves how stupid we were. [14:46:41] *** Quits: Kebap23 (Max@RBOSE-3vn3nc.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Connection closed) [14:47:17] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-3vn3nc.adsl.alicedsl.de) [14:59:12] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-a75udt.mobileonline.telia.com) [16:12:24] *** Joins: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) [16:34:42] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [17:13:16] *** Quits: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [17:15:39] *** Joins: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) [18:32:02] *** Joins: Caly (Caly@RBOSE-hbn1t7.mobileonline.telia.com) [19:10:00] *** Quits: Caly (Caly@RBOSE.org) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [19:25:49] *** Quits: jonas (jonas@RBOSE-vlh86f.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.) [21:35:43] *** Quits: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-3vn3nc.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Connection closed) [21:36:23] *** Joins: Kebap (Max@RBOSE-3vn3nc.adsl.alicedsl.de) [21:39:41] kalken: <3 [22:01:01] *** Joins: Kimsan (kim@RBOSE-b8raf0.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [22:41:16] *** Quits: ZyaX (9jti8d8@RBOSE-5lntnm.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [22:57:10] chrono: maybe this will be useful for you https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/proxtube/ :) [22:57:11] URL Title: ProxTube - Unblock YouTube :: Add-ons for Firefox [23:03:01] http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/welcome.html [23:03:02] URL Title: Tiny Core Linux, Micro Core Linux, 12MB Linux GUI Desktop, Live, Frugal, Extendable [23:11:54] hi kalken :] [23:12:22] i need to go and rest, c u guys later [23:12:51] lukas: hi :) [23:12:55] same here. [23:12:59] going to bed soon [23:13:00] http://www.pear-os-linux.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7:joomla-templates&catid=5:comice&Itemid=20 [23:13:01] URL Title: Pear Appstore [23:24:37] http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/HomePage [23:24:38] URL Title: Jitsi (SIP Communicator) | Main / HomePage [23:27:35] lukas: thanks:) But it's not important enough to make me change my system :) I'd rather change theirs :)