Gary Forbis wrote:

> > Unless you know EXACTLY how my brain's emotion system works, it is a

> > black box to you.

> 

> That's why I don't go claiming AIs have qaulities such as emotions or

> awareness. 



What I gather from your posts is that by your defenition only animals

have emotions (as I sense only particular animals, because your ethnics

fails at single-celled animals). Well let's say that, by my definition,

only people that agree with me are intelligent. What's the argument? Are

you countering my definition as usuported with an equaly unsuported

definiton of your own?



Let's put it this way: If I say that A and/or B maybe has E, does this

mean that I cannot possibly claim that A has E, if we all agree that B

has E? Weird logic you have there, I must say.



> > And since you must treat the other party simmilary to

> > be able to compare them, the machine must be considered as an utter

> > black box too.

> 

> Why must I?



If I look at a human from outer space and a bacteria with a microscope,

I can claim that the bacteria is bigger than the human. This is an

example of not theating both parties the same way. Is that what you

would want to base your logic upon?



> I don't concern myself with the emotions of my machines

> and never will because I can reprogram behavior as I see fit.



Oh, a father can do whatever he wants with his kid, who cares what the

kid feels. What moron invented ethnics?



> I concern myself with behaviors and models of emotional systems.



If a machine is not feeling well as a result of being misstreated, it is

likely to go out of operation soon. This is where it reflects the

behaviour.



> > > If you reduce emotions to their functional role you loose them.  I can

> > > create a half adder by way of a tinkertoy assembly, an electronic circuiit, a child,

> > > etc The mental and emotional life of these devices differ.  The issue isn't the

> > > functional role but rather the attributes of the system implementing it.

> >

> > Either I do not get your methods of indentifying anything beyond the

> > function off a black box or I am completely emotion-less.

> 

> maybe so.  I only consider animals, including humans, to have emotions

> because it helps keep me ethically cenered.



Mind getting a small bit of your ethnics for machines?



>  I'm not about to complain about the

> creation

> of programs that mimic the behaviors of psychotics, especially if they serve

> a

> learning need since there's no reason to assume the machine implmenting the

> program has the associated emotions or senses.  (Do you believe the same

> machine running one program lacks emotions but gain them when running

> another?  How about if it's running the same program but the output is

> reinterpreted

> by a second system prior to interaction with the world?)

> 

> > > > No problem in either

> > > > case. [Unless you're a typical sub-intelligent visitior of CAP or

> > > > philosopher that isn't aware of the definitions his brain knows, of

> > > > course.]

> > >

> > > Ah, the response of a person in the grips of a philosophy.

> >

> > The describtion was kind of like "I do not know what intelligence is,

> > but when I see it, I will know it is there.".

> 

> First, by whom?  Second, whis is intelligence being brought into the

> discussion?

> The topic is emotions, specifically "love."

> 

> > In other words, this

> > person is not aware of the meaning of Intelligence (as an information),

> > but his brain does know it (the meaning/information).

> 

> What does this sentence mean and how is it applicable?

> 

> > Self is a

> > collection of information and self-awarenes was stated to be the core

> > component of Intelligence.

> 

> I doubt awareness is necessary for intelligence.  Why are you making such

> a claim?

> 

> > Theese people are therefore, by their own

> > definitions, lacking some part of intelligence. Blah, blah, blah. Same

> > sh*t as philosophy always was.

> 

> Silly.  You can't argue your point so you declare yourself the winner.

> Hardly works, except in your own mind.





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